First off, let me distance myself from the people in my musical group. We have no political affiliation and we are pretty split evenly as far as registered dems, registered repubs and indies. Our bass player has some very violent words about the current President on his car, and I think its great. I myself am an independent and I voted for George W. Bush.

I don't like the hatred being thrown by people on this message board towards me and others who voted for the President. And though I wish to understand your point of view and sympathize with you (a part of me sort of wanted Kerry to win), a lot of you are further distancing yourself from people in my category and hurting the Democratic party in the long run (which is something I very strongly do not want to happen).

Let me also take care of some business for all of you who are already getting ready to reply: yes, I am ignorant, yes I have never travelled to a country outside of the Western world, I have not read the Koran (in all seriousness, this is something that everyone who wants to be making informed decisions in the current times should do), I am a very intense hypocrite, lazy, stubborn, apathetic at times, thick-skulled, etc., etc. And yes I do fit very neatly into the queue of Bush voters who have hot heads and lose their temper and make mis-informed, mal-aligned decisions. I am especially ignorant of economic issues and admit that I am uninformed with pretty much the specifics of every issue. I've seen Bowling for Columbine but not Farenheit 9/11. And though I feel I've evened out a lot of these faults by never having watched an episode of Friends or Will and Grace in its entirety, I concede that I have watched every episode of this year's "Real World" and think that Landon is a prick.

I voted for Bush in 2000 and in 2004 and have yet to regret it. I am not a flag waving supporter for the President, I have severe issues with him, but I also have my own reasons for voting for him. I will share some of those.

First, I dislike the war in Iraq and think it was fairly stupid and is probably tied to some economic gain for the United States, along with possibly wanting to set up a Democracy in the midst of the world of Islam. Bush mis-led the people about his reasons for going into the country, but I do not fault him for that. Whatever the real reason is, people would have thrown a shit-fit had he told them, and if a President thinks he is doing something for the good of the country, I do not consider it his responsibility to be completely honest with the people. Either way, I disapprove of the war. I also disapprove of the administrations affiliation with Haliburton, their lax gun control, and the destruction they are causing in the environment. I also do not like the fact that Bush's reading list of the last ten years consists of The Very Hungry Catepillar, the Gospels of the New Testament, Where The Wild Things Are, Clifford, and Mr. Big Brown Bear Eats His Own Shit. The Onion's "Bush Gives an Impromptu Oratory on the Minor Works of Virgil" pretty much hits it on the nail. Also, as a practicing Catholic, I do feel threatened by the Evangelical movement that keeps its hands tightly gripped to Bush's coat-tails.

But I also have strong beliefs and opinions about abortion, education, "family values" (I already hear your groans and I don't blame you), the war on terror, health care, and etc. My beliefs in those areas very closely align with the President's. As a tutor of homeschooled children, I have a very passionate opinion about education tax breaks for home schooled children and kids in private schools. And though I do feel threatened by the Evangelical movement the President seems to be a part of, I also feel more threatened by the growing hatred for any Christian faith that many of the "blue states" seem to have. I feel that my religion is not very well understood and very unfairly hated. And I think a lot of that hatred can be found on this message board. Anyway, I could go on, but what's the point? I have my beliefs, have debated them with people an infinite number of times and have absolutely no interest in debating them in a message forum. If one of you were to PM me and respectfully have a discussion with me at some point, I would be very interested. I am very interested in the opinions of the opposition as the only way to truly oppose something is to understand it entirely, and therefore I do not truly oppose nearly anything.

You may say to me that I am just like all the other ignorant assholes in those other red states that drive big pick up trucks, vote on the issues that don't matter and ignore their own suffering for the sake of the issues that don't matter like men kissing men, abortion, and so forth. I would say in response that although I am an ignorant asshole, I do drive a fuel efficient car, and I think that as long as the Democratic party cannot reach out to people like me (a person who often votes for and supports Democratic Senators, Reps, judges, sheriffs, deputy county commissioners, sultans, Journey replacement lead singers but will never vote for a duo with as liberal a voting record as Kerry-Edwards), the Democratic party will continue to lose ground.

I am very interested in a very strong Democratic party. Right now the Democrats are in a terrible position. Daschle lost, Kerry lost, the Republicans gained even more seats in the Senate and House. I do not think this is a good thing, and I personally wish for the Democrats to get closer to "evening" things out next election with the Senate and House. My own opinion is that instead of trying to recruit new voters (this is obviously something that does not work now), the Democrats should be figuring out how to work with the Republicans. I hope the party can, cause I want to see the President's power checked quite a bit.

But as long as the Democrats in the big states can't get past the fact that people like me are Bible-thumping simpletons who don't know what they are doing if they vote for the Hitler-esque Bush, I am only gonna respond with a red dot next to Bush's name and a big middle finger attached to it.

Also, one retaliation to the arguments about the arts and etc: although Clear Channel execs are good friends with Bush, it was Clinton who signed the bill that allowed CC to collect all of the stations they have now. Ironically enough, the biggest opponent of Clear Channel and our biggest ally is a Republican: John McCain. McCain is the man I want in the oval office ultimately, but who knows, maybe 2008?

I'm on a Columbus music message board, I understand and accept that I am in the great minority here, and I think its totally cool. Just my two cents. And no, I never would have had the balls to say any of this to Chuck D.

I hope for the best in the next four years. If you think less of me for voting for this President, I definitely understand your opinion and as much as I want everyone's respect, I wish everyone well and am very sorry to see everyone so upset about Kerry losing. I felt really bad seeing everyone at Little Bros. on Tuesday night so bummed out. It gives me great hope that everyone was hoping for what they thought was the best for this country.

Also: $50 to the first ex-pat from the message board.

-Joe Persuasion

What would it take to reach out to "people like you" and what specifically didn't you like about Kerry's platform?

Just so you know, I’m not looking for a fight I’m genuinely curious.

PM me if you wanna know. I've already mentioned the vague concepts that align me with the President. I don't want to drag things out and make this an argument or fight in a public forum where all the loopholes in my thought process or beliefs are scrutinized. I've already conceded that there are many of those. Although my post is all over the place, I mainly wanted to say that I just don't like the way people seem to equate voting for Bush as having this very immoral or inhumane quality to it. I think there are a lot of people like me who don't like the President and still voted for him anyway. And to anyone else, if you have any questions for me, just PM me, and I'd be happy to listen to whatever it is you have to say.

-Joe

You're absolutely right. There are certianly many many people who voted for bush because they agreed with some of his policies or felt he was the best man for the job or whatever. But there are also people out there who voted for bush because their religion organization told them to. Or because they still believe that Iraq has WMDs or that saddam was in collusion with Al Queda (or even worse, believe that Iraq was responsible for 9/11).

I think the problem is, that there is no way of knowing just how many people fall into each of these groups. 59 million people voted for bush. And my honest opinion is that at least half of those people voted for him out of ignorance or blind faith. And that disgusts me. And I think a lot of other people feel the same way. (http://www.mirror.co.uk/frontpages) It is unfortunate that those feelings get generalized and carried over to the people who try to be informed and make their own decisions and still side with Bush for whatever reason but I think that indicates just what a travesty it is that SO MANY people could vote based on their own narrow little world view.

Well put Greenhorn.

Wow. I am so glad I have never seen your band. One less to waste an evening and five bones on.

Well, if I were a big dubya fan who wanted a complete overhaul of the Democrats in our Government, I would say, thank you very much. As a person who simply wants to articulate their own personal feelings and point out the shortcomings and troubles that face the Democratic party and perhaps say something that let's people know where someone like me comes from, I find your remark just completely sad and tragic, unless you really hate my band's music, in which case, I understand. You'd think I'm f-ing Wagner.[/quote]

Actually, I heard some of your bands stuff at Workbook and it reminded me of an organic Radiohead.

But you wouldn't want people like me at your shows anyway. I might threaten your family values.

I don't get the Wagner reference, but I'm not a classically trained musician, so go fucking figure.

Wow. Just wow.

since religion, christianity esp., has become a hot button topic on this board and this post i wanted to chime in off pm's. i do believe religion as it stands worldwide is a very scary entity which is probably deserving of message board bashing. i do however do believe in faith and hold strongly to mine

now it takes a rather benign scripture study to see that even in the time of Jesus there were political sects who rode a wave of "family valueish" ideals to tyranny, wealth , and above all power. they used these "ideals" or "values" to capitalize on the commonfolk so desperately seeking for this type of leaderhip to save them from having to think on their own or be challenged. Jesus spoke out heavily against the individuals and fought hard to spread the message of theri evils.
in my humble opinion i dont think much would change today

anyway this is a broad idea and in no way should be considered a shot at joe, whose band beth should still go see

Why? So I can support the art of someone who knows nothing about me but finds me to be a destructive force on society? I think I'll stay home.

Did he make another post that I can't see or something?

jesus. i don't think most bands i see know jack shit about me.

the whiles are a fine band. i enjoyed their set in cincy awhile back and spin the colors of the year from time to time. your loss.

extremism, in any direction, is a dangerous thing.

i think it was nice of joe to offer up his opinion, he certainly wasn't shoving his opinion down anyone's throat. nor was he stating that his bandmates (who feel differently than he does) are a destructive force on society.

Did you miss this?

"But I also have strong beliefs and opinions about abortion, education, "family values" (I already hear your groans and I don't blame you), the war on terror, health care, and etc. My beliefs in those areas very closely align with the President's."

No, I did not. You seem to be putting words into his mouth.

I agree, homophobia (xenophobia in any form really) is a dangerous thing.

So is telling people what to do with their bodies.

Joe had to expect some negative feedback, I'm just fulfilling his expectations.

Somebody's skimming…

And somebody's going out of their way to wring a fight out of a conciliatory post.

Dude, you're music's as bad as your beliefs.

ZING!

We obviously disagree. I go out of my way to defend the issues I feel passionate about. If you think that is wringing a fight, so be it.

First off, mad props to Joe for speaking his mind, especially in this message board.

Second of all, if I stopped liking bands because of their personal values, I'd be listening to silence. As an example, I fucking hate drugs, but when it comes to the music someone makes, I don't let someone's addictions (recovering or otherwise) get in the way of what I like or don't like.

Family Values are a crock of shit.
Abortion is a crock of shit.

I know this to be true because I sold crock pots door to door for about a year until my job got outsourced to India where they sold Foreman Grills instead, which is a superior machine, but hey come on everyone loves a good pot of crock.

Anywho, the Whiles suck.

And they flipfloped between band names. I mean come on, they can’t be trusted.

Yeah, it was real courageous to be so vaguely supportive of those who are bending a lot of us over…



And that's fine for you. But I don't see a big old bag of marijuana denying you of your basic civil rights.