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 Post subject: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:48 am 
Godzilla

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This team is probably about to get shut out for 7 staright games and instead of flipping 2 amazing prospects for some offense they bring in the national league Fausto

we are going to seriously miss Pomeranz and White down the road

effin tribe

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:34 pm 
King Ghidorah
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the pitcher is nice... but yea, the bat is reeeeally what they needed.

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:24 pm 
Godzilla
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irongoat81 wrote:
the pitcher is nice... but yea, the bat is reeeeally what they needed.


Unfortunately, there actually has to be more than one or two available to get one.

I lost my shit when I heard the were giving up both White and Pomz, but this is a good trade, they're getting a proven commodity.

Look at our rotation for at least the next 2 years (swapping Carmona for Huff/McAllister/Barnes/Gomez)

...of those four prospects, Huff has the highest ERA at 3.86!

Give Chiz and Kipnis some time to acclimate.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2011/ ... nez-trade/
http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... trade.html
http://www.indiansprospectinsider.com/2 ... ughts.html

Actually, I think they should be looking at finding a catcher to replace Marson and move Santana to 1B permanently


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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:17 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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would that we had turned jaret wright and whoever the hell else the expos wanted into pedro martinez when we had the chance . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:54 am 
Godzilla

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I know I need patience, but chisenhall is starting to worry me. He just doesnt seem to get many strong at -bats regardless if he gets on base or not

Kipnis may be starting to break out though

tonight's a big game for huff

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:11 am 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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My first thought was we gave up too much. But we've got a minor league system full of decent arms. There's no way all of our minor league studs are going to make it into the Indians rotation so why not use some of them as trade bait for a proven, successful major league pitcher?

I don't know that I'd call Jimenez "Fausto 2". Let's give him a few starts to see what he does pitching in the American League.

I read an article somewhere that said the Tribe can't afford to sign top-tier free agents like Jimenez so the only real chance to get somebody that can really help this team out is through trades. But, to get those players in trades, you have to have players/prospects that other teams want. It looks like this stockpiling of talent in Columbus and Akron is starting to pay off.

I wouldn't be too worried about Chisenhall, Kipnis, etc. right now. Yeah, they aren't coming out of the gate blowing people away but they'll eventually warm up to the big leagues.

If you think about, despite the hardships of the last month or two, we're still in the running with what basically amounts to a AAA team. That's pretty impressive. Can't wait to see what Jimenez and Fukudome bring to the team and what Choo and Sizemore's returns later this year due to add a spark.

Now, if we could just unload Kearns ....

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:14 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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I haven't been paying close attention to baseball this year. Still burned out on spo'tes from whatsisname leaving. But, I have to say, any time you have a chance to win the division, you HAVE to go for it. Bats are a dime a dozen, good starting pitching is hard to come by. I am totally behind this trade, I don't even know anything about these players. The logic of it is sound. Who knows how good the other teams will be next year, or beyond? Even if they stumble backwards into the playoffs, getting there is all that matters right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:19 pm 
Godzilla

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the problem there is after this roadstand, there is a good chance that the tribe will be buried ( even in this down year for the central) and out of contention. Thus we'll be left with an ace who has mysteriously lost 4mph in velocity this year whom we traded our rotaion's future for.

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:41 pm 
Godzilla
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I don't like the trade at all. Jiminez is a .500 pitcher minus his stats from his best year (last year) and most of that was in the first half of the season. I keep hearing about how good he was in Coors field and that if he puts up those kind of numbes in Coors then "imagine how good he'll be here in Cleveland." Fact of the matter is that Progressive field is ranked higher hr's per game than Coors AND he'll have to face the Rangers and the American league east. But, I hope he pitches well.

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:42 pm 
Godzilla
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First outing not so good.

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:21 am 
Godzilla
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Cleveland Indians should remain strong for years to come
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-080 ... 0773.story

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/68274 ... top-bottom

http://clevelandtribeblog.blogspot.com/ ... unday.html
Quote:

just to bring this back to the here and now with the AL Central for this year and beyond and how the Indians are now uniquely positioned in the division, take a look at the embarrassingly low payroll obligations for the Tribe going forward…go ahead, go look. Now, compare them to the payroll commitments for Tigers ($74M already committed for next year), the White Sox (who owe Alex Rios and Adam Dunn a total of $83.5M AFTER this year, and even the Twins (who owe Joe Mauer $18M per year through the 2018 season) and realize how well-positioned the Tribe is going forward, compared to their AL Central counterparts.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key ... utput=html



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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:31 pm 
King Ghidorah
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went to the game last night. jimenez looked solid. one bad inning but he locked down after that.
and holy fucking shit did kipnis catch fire... 5 for 5 with a bomb and 4 runs? jesus. let's hope he can keep it going. :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:40 pm 
Godzilla

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Id be so effin happy if he (jimenez) proved me wrong

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:36 am 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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Was at Sawmill Target two nights ago and saw an entire rack of #30 Jimenez shirts. Somebody's banking on him being a true #1 starter and leading us to the playoffs if not farther.

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:09 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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I'm waiting for the "We Are All Kipnises" tee. :clap: :clap: :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:41 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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I really figured that either the Tribe would've fallen off or the Tigers would've run away with this division by now, but Cleveland's not bad enough to take a dive and Detroit's not good enough to make a surge. This is going to be exciting down to the wire. Which, as a Tigers fan, fucking sucks...

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:37 pm 
King Ghidorah
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and now the jimenez deal is looking bad.

FUCK. :wall:

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:19 pm 
Godzilla

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yes, This season was a surprise of sorts ( they're still gonna end up in 3rd), but I would be much more optimistic movin forward with white and pomeranz

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:31 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Intercontinental C's wrote:
yes, This season was a surprise of sorts ( they're still gonna end up in 3rd), but I would be much more optimistic movin forward with white and pomeranz


Don't give up hope yet. 4.5 games is not an insurmountable lead by any stretch. Outside of Verlander, Detroit's rotation is seriously suspect and I don't have much faith in that bullpen getting critical outs down the stretch either. Not a lot of prime offensive talent in that lineup either, outside of Miguel Cabrera. Infield defense is atrocious.

Cleveland and Detroit are pretty evenly matched, we'll just have to see how the September schedule plays out. My guess is that the three-game series in Detroit at the end of the season is going to decide the division.

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:37 pm 
Godzilla

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that would be nice, but top to bottom, Detroits line up is much better then Cleveland's.

Fister is also set to surprise. he was a damn nice pick up

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:33 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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My analysis says it's closer than you think. Losing Hafner hurts, but if Cleveland brings in Thome in a waiver deal, I think he helps fill the gap.

C: Avila vs. Santana (could flip if Santana could harness his potential or if Avila gets worn down from not having a backup)
1B: Cabrera vs. LaPorta (no contest)
2B: Raburn/Santiago vs. Valbuena/Donald (though Kipnis is better than all of them)
3B: Betemit vs. Chisenhall (Chisenhall has the tools to be the better player, but isn't yet)
SS: Peralta vs. Cabrera (defense puts him over the top)
LF: Young vs. Brantley (though Young has looked really good since coming over in the trade)
CF: Jackson vs. Fukudome PUSH (Sizemore is better than both)
RF: Boesch vs. Choo (underperforming Choo still a better player)
DH: Martinez vs. ??? (a push with a healthy Hafner, a squeaker over Thome, a blowout over anybody else)

Rotation is either a push or edge to Cleveland. Verlander is an A+, Fister is a B-, Scherzer, Porcello and Penny are all Ds. Masterson is an A-, Ubaldo is a B-, Fausto is either a B+ or a D- depending on the day (better lately), Tomlin is a C, Huff has B-/C+ potential (Carrasco is a D).

Bullpen edge goes heavy to Cleveland, though Perez has to get his shit together and quick.

Manager: Leyland vs. Acta (cranky, old motherfucker)

Front office: Dombrowski vs. Shapiro/Antonetti (Dave D. built two World Series winners in Florida and turned the worst team in the history of the AL into league champs 3 years later)

Ballpark: Comerica vs. Progressive (Indians are better built for their home park, Tigers are too slow to use the wide-open spaces in the outfield gaps)

Fans: PUSH (though http://roarofthetigers.wordpress.com is probably the funniest fan blog I've ever read)

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:32 pm 
King Ghidorah
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fucking jimenez. what is he? 1 and 2 or 1 and 3 since coming over? i don't wanna claim bust but seriously... detroit kicked his ass. and that was sort of why he was hired... to kick THEIR ass...

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:55 pm 
Godzilla

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justin wrote:
My analysis says it's closer than you think. Losing Hafner hurts, but if Cleveland brings in Thome in a waiver deal, I think he helps fill the gap.

C: Avila vs. Santana (could flip if Santana could harness his potential or if Avila gets worn down from not having a backup)
1B: Cabrera vs. LaPorta (no contest)
2B: Raburn/Santiago vs. Valbuena/Donald (though Kipnis is better than all of them)
3B: Betemit vs. Chisenhall (Chisenhall has the tools to be the better player, but isn't yet)
SS: Peralta vs. Cabrera (defense puts him over the top)
LF: Young vs. Brantley (though Young has looked really good since coming over in the trade)
CF: Jackson vs. Fukudome PUSH (Sizemore is better than both)
RF: Boesch vs. Choo (underperforming Choo still a better player)
DH: Martinez vs. ??? (a push with a healthy Hafner, a squeaker over Thome, a blowout over anybody else)

Rotation is either a push or edge to Cleveland. Verlander is an A+, Fister is a B-, Scherzer, Porcello and Penny are all Ds. Masterson is an A-, Ubaldo is a B-, Fausto is either a B+ or a D- depending on the day (better lately), Tomlin is a C, Huff has B-/C+ potential (Carrasco is a D).

Bullpen edge goes heavy to Cleveland, though Perez has to get his shit together and quick.

Manager: Leyland vs. Acta (cranky, old motherfucker)

Front office: Dombrowski vs. Shapiro/Antonetti (Dave D. built two World Series winners in Florida and turned the worst team in the history of the AL into league champs 3 years later)

Ballpark: Comerica vs. Progressive (Indians are better built for their home park, Tigers are too slow to use the wide-open spaces in the outfield gaps)

Fans: PUSH (though http://roarofthetigers.wordpress.com is probably the funniest fan blog I've ever read)


with all those hypotheticals why dont we just put a healthy, youthful Ordonez in RF?

hafner hasnt been healthy since '07, and Sizemore isnt better then anyone at this point

Austin Jackson is better then Fukodome, believe me. Some of his at bats over the last few weeks have been hard to watch and his fielding anywhere but RF (and RF only) is scary

the tribe is out of it, and with Verlander I wouldnt be surprised if the Tigrs could pull off an '06 Cards like run in the playoffs

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:15 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Intercontinental C's wrote:
with all those hypotheticals why dont we just put a healthy, youthful Ordonez in RF?

hafner hasnt been healthy since '07, and Sizemore isnt better then anyone at this point

Austin Jackson is better then Fukodome, believe me. Some of his at bats over the last few weeks have been hard to watch and his fielding anywhere but RF (and RF only) is scary

the tribe is out of it, and with Verlander I wouldnt be surprised if the Tigrs could pull off an '06 Cards like run in the playoffs


This is awesome. We're arguing over whose team is worse. I wish the NBA lockout were over so we could have a really great Cavs vs. Pistons discussion along the same vein.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Fister, Scherzer, Penny and Porcello step up the same way Jeff Weaver, Jeff Suppan and Anthony Reyes did in '06, but I don't think they will. Frankly, I'd be happy if they could simply make throws to first base (which no Tiger pitcher could do in '06).

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 Post subject: Re: Jimenez??, really Tribe, really
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:23 am 
Godzilla

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1st. Nice Anthony Reyes reference

2nd. Coydog must be cringing at my "woe is me cleveland fan diatribes"

3rd. that pistons/cavs argument would be quite a doozy, greg monroe is pretty sweet

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