I knew one of you heroic knowitalls could be counted on to come out and say I didn't do enough self promoting without knowing anything. I was confident you could find a way to downplay the reality of the scene's selfishness. Without knowing shit about me, you could already tell through your Calvinist ideal that if I failed, it must be that I didn't work hard enough. You assume I'm lazy. Sort of like when billionaires who inherit fortunes think that steelworkers are poor because they're lazy.

You get the blue ribbon, congrats! Let me get a step ladder so I can reach you up there on your elite cool kid pedestal. I'll be sure to wear gloves so you don't actually come in contact with me, the unwashed.

I've been working on promoting this band consistently for several years. Other paper contacts, bar contacts, fliers, myspace, twitter, facebook. We've had gigs with a few touring nationals. Were you there? Doubt it. We were good enough for them, just not you Columbusites.

Marketing is core. But if that marketing doesn't click with the big names, it doesn't matter.

I've asked to open for, or offered headline slot of a weekend gig to, about 6 of those Cool Local Rawk Bands you listed. Hung out with em at bars, go to their shows, networked with em.

But they were just too important to talk to us little people.

What's the really coolest though is volunteering with local festivals because they say that the bands who volunteer are considered, and then they just give the slots to the new band formed by their friends.

Thanks for vindicating me, btw. Kisses.

I did want to point out that there is a sense in which Andy Gallagher puts his money where his mouth is - he actually actively supports the local music scene by hosting a weekly open mic... As much as i think the article is a bit presumptuous, he's not airing opinions that are completely ridiculous. Cut him some slack...

And to the guy who says that "networking is everything"... you're just helping to make the other guy's point that it's not a meritocracy - it's "who you know". Incidentally, if you get a gig or get people to come to your gig because of "who you know" and not because you're good - you'll end up with an audience who is only there because of "who you know" and not because they like listening to you. I'm not saying that it's a meritocracy or it's not a meritocracy - just pointing out that "being a great self-promoter" isn't anything to be proud of. Saddest thing is having an audience that is there but actually uninterested in your music.

i think there's only one festival that (rightly or wrongly) ever suggested there was a tie between volunteering and playing. For the other 'festivals' in town, know this: it takes a lot of people a lot of man hours of volunteering to pull one off, not to mention money. Even for the ones that aren't fundraisers, people are at least looking to cover their costs. And, by nature, 'festival' implies 'crowd'. So, when someone is putting together a bill for such an event, they're likely looking for someone who can pull in more than your admitted draw of 15 regulars. I mean, you want a meritocricy- show us your merit. Or at least tell us what band you play in.

DUDE do you ever stop to think that maybe us local People just don't like your band? The Music I will admit isnt bad. But the vocals are terrible. Yes Columbus is full of elitest people. Maybe national bands want you to play with them because a MAJORITY of national popular music is CRAP! Not all of it at all, but most of the stuff on the radio is. In Columbus your band has to earn respect from other bands so that way they will want to book you. My band is new, full of fatties and old dudes and havent promoted shit and we have no problem getting people to our shows. So once again STOP crying and thinking everyone who doesnt like your band is out to get you! MAN UP!

is this dude in that band lemming

Mt.Carmel is doing a national tour with The Sword and Karma to Burn


Bad Ass

Obviously our vocals suck, that must be it. which song do you feel has the worst vocals on it?

Now, since you hold all the answers, tell us how one "wins respect" from another band. Offering them slots on weekend shows or shows with national acts? That hasn't worked.

And if you don't promote and have no prob getting people to your shows, why argue that I need to promote?

You obviously have a built in crowd (sounds like it's again, based on who you know knowm since you don't promote) . Your work's covered.

And I don't feel others are "out to get me". I just feel that the scene is insular to the point of being incestuous. Bands aren't interested in talking to or working with anyone they don't already know.

And if a festival makes a point to talk up being a space to introduce people to bands they haven't heard before, as opposed to being the same bands you see at Skullys and Ravari Room all the time, then it shouldn't matter that we only get 15 regulars. The point is for people to get to see new (to them) bands, and for bands to get more exposure. Your argument just proves the insularity of the scene.

It's a tough pitch to say to any band ("big" or "small"), "OK, we've got this great idea for a show. You guys will headline, and we'll play right before you (thus playing in-front of your crowd)."

The reality is, most local bands don't really think of themselves as "big" (whatever that means). Is anyone around town selling out the Newport, The LC, or even Skully's by themselves (without support acts)?

The "big" bands, just like the "small" bands, are trying to get on shows that will help put their band in-front of a larger audience. This generally means playing the middle slot of a three band bill, etc.

I'm not arguing anything. I mean, are you really winning this thread?

Raise your hand if you're now dying to pay a cover to see okdesuka's band.

technically, his band isn't really on trial here is it? it's consistent that his band might not be good, AND that the music scene in columbus is insular. he's provided some non-ridiculous evidence that it is insular... evidence that is separate from the quality of his band. i thought the lack of unnecessary sniping was supposed to distinguish this board from craigslist... or maybe i haven't been around long enough. that said, what band is he in again?

Shame we can't all just be friends, eh?

yet you've only discovered this here message board um.... today?

you beat me to this post

Shitcore/ Incest split 7" release party at Drugg Rugg House. It is both bands first show. We are playing with Balls Deep and Plutocracy (no, not that one). Saturday night, $5, free herbal x at the door. Wake up on the moon.

My step-dad's band, Fetus Cop just added to the bill.

Can we rename this thread, ROYAL RUMBLE?

Oh snap, ya got me. Wins.

I wanted to make a point without bringing my bandmates into it, so I made a private account instead of using the band one.

Anyway, promoting here didn't do any good, none of ya came out.

Fuck yes. I haven't been in a good fight in awhile. Can we start a DW Fight Club? I want to see Tristan vs Kirk.

1. Flyering doesn't work.
2. Drinking in bars does.
3. No complaining.

Sing out your heart for three people and you wille be holie.

1. define "success."
2. now that you've defined it, understand that it doesn't exist or matter (here especially, but rilly anywhere. it just doesn't have anything to do with anything, much less with musick).
3. i can't think of two bands in this town that sound remotely similar to each other. define this concept wherein "don't be different" makes some damned sense please.
4. no one - and i MEAN no one - cares about musicianship, ever, except when they have nothing else to talk about with their parents or coworkers or the other guys at RUSH-CON.

trooths are only interesting when you consider what the point of throwing them out there is. this reminds me of that fake email about michael richards's supposed reaction after he made those racist comments onstage. sure, there's no whitefolks collegefund®…but what does it matter? i see that yer point is that you've given up trying - but antoine said that when he left and hasn't shown any sign of slowing down since he moved to cali so hmm maybe i don't believe ya - but i dunno what andy's point was and neither do most of the people on here who've commented and that seems to be their point. also i dunno what band yer in or anything or why you feel so shitupon. i wonder how you and everyone else (i suspect there are more of you than there are of us, so like take over teh asylum er somethin' please please and stfu) who takes yer particular stance presume that we (if i am even included, hmm) get into said clique and why we maintain it and well i haven't fleshed out exactly what i think what you think yer talking about is, like, as a theory, so fill in yddayadda blank to yer liking.

also, like teh sceeene isn't a smarmy clique, & the groop of six to eight people on here entertaining themselves isn't rilly either…but that's what yer talking about. not teh scene. six to eight realfunnyguys™ (*not guaranteed to be in any way funny) who may or may not play and/or listen to musick. in col's.

ok, also if yer just some trollterego of someone on here having a laff w/yerself, good on ya.

also, even if people in bands then start other bands and either or both of those bands plays in a park or parkinglot or wherever, do you enjoy seeing them play? do you like their musick? cuz it seems like that never came into the conversation.

"more time" circling and ripping than what?

5. there already was a band here called sour grapes.
6. it's fucking washington beach. don't shorten it again. ever.

I think J.O.'s response is classy and correct.

I can't remember who we overheard one night asking if any "important people" were gonna be at a show. That was hysterical. Our best shows were probably in front of 13 people. One night we even heckled some dude at the bar until he left so that we could get it down to 13 people. Ok. Ok. 13 is actually kind of a big turnout.

But, you gotta figure the less people, the more awesomeness that's gonna proportionately hit them. We played for just one guy one night and he fu#$ing levitated. The fewer the people the greater the Myth. And the mystery. There's actually some Truth to this but it sounds like some kids just don't understand.

Keep gigging 'til your freaking head falls off and quit your bitching or start a Revolution in my panties, already.

I am now dying to pay a cover to see this.

Wait one minute, so Columbus is insular but what if it is really run by some cult like Xenos or whatever the Da Vinci Code is about? I've already put tin foil all over my house and music equipment. I don't want some bible beater to steal my shitcore songs. I suggest you all do the same. You can thank me in the afterlife.

this thing is meaner than a reality show, wow.
I would think that taking insecurities to a message board like this isn't the wisest thing to do...I mean, shit what are you thinking.

Being um, an "old" guy now, I don't know anybody's tag lines except for Ron and Nick Should and Ron has the funniest on target stuff. But I disgress, who cares how many people come to your fuckin' show unless you're the promoter?
Some of the best shows I ever saw (local and "National") bands were sparsely attended. The second show I ever booked (Thinking Feller Union Local 292 w/ Gaunt) had 12 people! Nobody cared or whined in public, we got drunk and danced around. The Fellers came back to town five more times, even. I saw Terribly Empty Pockets a few months ago and there was only about 20 people there, guess what? They were great and had fun.

Jesus, if I gave a rat's ass about how many people I pissed off over the years or how many times my feelings were hurt cause nobody came to the shows I booked or the bands I helped, I'da killed myself.

Now, excuse me I gotta watch me some "Murder, She Wrote" in my underpants, that lady is sooo fuckin' hot.

-Bela