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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:08 pm 
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Adam Smith wrote:
Why was Sayid all like "I've found the love of my life again" when he met Shannon in purgatory? I thought Nadia was his girl. They spent 4 seasons using Nadia as his motivation for everything, including him getting all dark, but in the last 20 min of the series he sees Shannon and is, like, re-united with his lost love. The fuck was that?


something i called the second sayid said to MiB that he wanted the love of his life that died in his arms or whatever the phrase was.
he spent years obsessing with/fighting for the love of nadia, but the shannon thing was immediate and simple. the way the "love of your life" should be. that being said: fuck shannon.

Adam Smith wrote:
I thought the plane was, like, 1,000 miles off course and headed back to Fiji or something when they crashed on the island. In sideways universe, they flew over the island then 5 min later landed at LAX. I get that the sideways universe was religious magic or whatever but why, then, show the island at the bottom of the ocean at all?


the island at the bottom of the ocean (and most of LA X) was in the sideways/limbo world, so it doesn't matter where the undersea island was in relation to los angeles, because it wasn't real. i think they showed it (in the context of the show's characters) to symbolize that the island and all it's troubles had been "dead & buried" to the losties in limbo. i think they showed it (in the context of the show's viewers) as a mindfuck/red herring. but it DID serve it's purpose, in that it showed the viewers that everything in that reality was NOTHING like what we'd seen before . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:15 pm 
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abstraction wrote:
I'm still inclined to accept that the psychic was real and told Rose and Claire what they needed to hear to get them onto the island. Claire would eventually go on to raise Aaron (assuming the plane landed safely somewhere), and he may have been a force for good in some other way that had nothing to do with the island, which the psychic may have seen as a "convenient" tool to ensure the outcome.



but malkin confessed to mr. eko that he was a total fraud as a psychic.

he DID however use the exact same phrase that eloise used on jack "it has to be this flight" so i'm led to believe the "couple in LA" that she was supposed to take aaron to, and the money he gave her for the ticket, all came from eloise.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 2:34 pm 
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BastardSuperstar wrote:
i'm led to believe the "couple in LA" that she was supposed to take aaron to, and the money he gave her for the ticket, all came from eloise.

Good theory! Still not sure I believe he was telling the truth to Eko. It came across like denial or an outright lie to get rid of him. Rose could've been happenstance, but why was he so persistent in trying to convince Claire to raise the baby herself at first? Or am I remembering that wrong?

bug wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing a spin off or two like what happened the years where MiB was living with the the well diggers or the story of who takes over after Hurly or early Dharma years when Ben Miles and Charlotte were kids.
Ditto. I'd prefer the post-Hurley years because they wouldn't have to work around what the audience knows is supposed to happen.
BastardSuperstar wrote:
the island at the bottom of the ocean (and most of LA X) was in the sideways/limbo world, so it doesn't matter where the undersea island was in relation to los angeles, because it wasn't real.
Plus, the island moved in Season 4.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:00 pm 
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so one of my new favorite questions/theories is: did jughead actually explode?

take into consideration: if it didn't explode, and it was the "electromagnetism" that sent everyone back to their proper time, just as it had been making the island/losties skip around in time to begin with. then the hatch would still be built, dharma keeps on keepin on, and everything would be as it was when the losties got to the island.

if, as christian says*, there is no now, time has no meaning "here" then juliet saying "it worked" for the losties to hear is actually her talking about the candy bar she was trying to salvage for sawyer in limboland. miles "heard it" as a message for sawyer, because it's the first thing she says as she's "awakened" in limbo. even though she's lived an entire limbo life with jack and jr. "it worked" is the first thing that 'our" juliet says after her island death. miles hears it right away, because "there is no now" for juliet, who has just experienced all of her "afterlife-life" in a nano-second of nothingness that is the limbo world.

i've got some more thoughts on this, and i feel like i need to double check some shit, but so far, i'm sticking with this one.
jughead never exploded.





*not a tones on tail reference

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:16 pm 
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abstraction wrote:
bug wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing a spin off or two like what happened the years where MiB was living with the the well diggers or the story of who takes over after Hurly or early Dharma years when Ben Miles and Charlotte were kids.
Ditto. I'd prefer the post-Hurley years because they wouldn't have to work around what the audience knows is supposed to happen.

and we'd get to spend some more time with good ol' fun time Hurley!


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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:25 pm 
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bug wrote:
abstraction wrote:
bug wrote:
I wouldn't mind seeing a spin off or two like what happened the years where MiB was living with the the well diggers or the story of who takes over after Hurly or early Dharma years when Ben Miles and Charlotte were kids.
Ditto. I'd prefer the post-Hurley years because they wouldn't have to work around what the audience knows is supposed to happen.

and we'd get to spend some more time with good ol' fun time Hurley!

With or without Hurley, it would let them explore what it means to "protect" the Island. Ben said that not letting people leave was Jacob's policy, and I don't know that we've seen enough to say whether that's true.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:28 pm 
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interesting theory, but i really don't see how it means that jughead didn't explode.

after all, when they are set back in the right timeline, everything was as if dharma had kept on trucking. the bomb didn't work in the way that Faraday and Jack had thought/hoped. It didn't change the past, it just sent them back to where they were supposed to be. What happened, still happened. That's why Sawyer kicked the shit out of Jack. and why everybody was like "the fuck?" when Miles heard Juliet say, "it worked."

now i agree that she could be talking from a place where there is no "now," and her saying "it worked" is more of a statement either about the enlightenment or the church party and everything is cool and shit, but i don't think it means that jughead didn't explode.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:29 pm 
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abstraction wrote:
Ben said that not letting people leave was Jacob's policy, and I don't know that we've seen enough to say whether that's true.


that line pissed me off so bad

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:38 pm 
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Bennett wrote:

now i agree that she could be talking from a place where there is no "now," and her saying "it worked" is more of a statement either about the enlightenment or the church party and everything is cool and shit, but i don't think it means that jughead didn't explode.



"it worked" was definitely about the candy bar. its what she was saying when they touched and remembered. right after they unplugged and replugged the machine. (which is exactly what des & jack did with the island. it made me think of "the I.T. crowd" and the way they always answered the phone: "I.T. . . . have you tried unplugging it and plugging it back in?")

and no, it doesn't MEAN that jughead didn't explode, but it seems like motherfuckers wouldn't have stuck around an island where an h-bomb had just been detonated and was chock full of radiation. well, i guess in this case MORE radiation . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:40 pm 
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also, it ties in with her dying in sawyer's arms conversation about going out for coffee. this was her seeing the limbo-world because of all the electromagnetism shock the same way it allowed des to see limbo after his extreme electro-shock.

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Last edited by BastardSuperstar on Tue May 25, 2010 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:41 pm 
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BastardSuperstar wrote:
"it worked" was definitely about the candy bar. its what she was saying when they touched and remembered. right after they unplugged and replugged the machine. (which is exactly what des & jack did with the island. it made me think of "the I.T. crowd" and the way they always answered the phone: "I.T. . . . have you tried unplugging it and plugging it back in?")


If they seriously unplugged and restarted the island, I'm going to detonate an h-bomb.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:50 pm 
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see, it's weird to me what some people are willing to give a pass to and take a leap of faith on.

for me, i don't really know how nuclear bombs and supermassive pockets of electomagnetism react together on mystical islands. i'm willing to accept that the combination of those things created some sort of wormhole or whatever that brought our Losties back to where they were supposed to be timewise without actually torching the island.

i mean, surviving a plane crash at 30,000 ft., magical cures for paralysis and cancer, no-baby curses, smoke monsters, time travel... is that really something that's so hard to believe?

I like that you picked up the coffee and it worked connections, that's cool and i didn't realize that... but for me, that still doesn't convince me that jughead didn't explode. for me if it didn't it would just add another level of pointlessness to everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 3:57 pm 
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in other words, i find it easier to accept that:

atomic bomb + electomagnetism = weird timehole thingy - devastation

than i do:

jacob deciding that the best way to protect himself and the island from something that can't kill him/destroy the island was to bring more people to the island.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:23 pm 
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p.s. somebody at work got some nutter butters stuck in the vending machine and i tried to unplug it and plug it back in and IT DID NOT FUCKING WORK, JULIET.

also regarding jughead: Faraday's belief was that the drilling was what caused the incident. his theory was that the atomic bomb would contain the energy of the drill breaking the pocket, hence stopping the incident from happening. he was half right. the bomb contained the energy keeping the island safe from both the electromagnetic discharge and the atomic blast. however, as miles postulated it was this, and not the drilling unmolested that actually turned out to be "the incident."

also ties in with the hatch/chernobyl comparisons

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Bennett wrote:
jacob deciding that the best way to protect himself and the island from something that can't kill him/destroy the island was to bring more people to the island.

Again, this "flaw" requires the assumption that there is absolutely no other way to reach the island than for Jacob to bring them. Philosophically, he would also need to accept that people, as a rule, weren't worth trusting. Since the end of Season 5, there've been some pretty heavy-handed allegorical references to the God vs. Satan dynamic, wherein God seems to be even more concerned with watching people find their own way than with forcing a "good" outcome. It encapsulates the sense that the journey is as important as (if not more important than) the ending. The journey itself is what gives the ending meaning.

Bennett wrote:
p.s. somebody at work got some nutter butters stuck in the vending machine and i tried to unplug it and plug it back in and IT DID NOT FUCKING WORK, JULIET.
There's no reason why it would, which leads me to believe BS's theory about it representing Jack & Desmond's reboot of the island, which I think is hilarious, if true.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:47 pm 
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it doesn't require that assumption, bringing people to the island just increases the possibility of the shit hitting the fan

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:53 pm 
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Okay, here goes.

1.) I like the idea that Ben didn't go into the church because he was waiting for Alex's reawakening. I also like the idea that he wasn't sure if he was worthy to move on. Or rather, that JACK didn't think he was worthy. I'm more apt to believe that Sideways World (all of it, even the parts that didn't involve Jack) were created by Jack's subconscious. Like, his soul could remember bits and flashes of people that were important to him, but not enough to put the story together, so his soul pieced together this crazy-ass story to try and make sense of the memories (much like your brain will do while you sleep). So Jack didn't want Ben to come along for his ride. Doesn't mean Ben won't or hasn't already crossed over and Jack will run into him in the afterlife.

2.) Doc Jensen had what I think is the best theory of what 'the light' is. It seems clear now that the 'loophole' didn't involve killing all of the candidates. MIB just needed Jacob dead so that his rules would no longer apply. Jense maintains that MIB (or more specifically Smokey, as that is his true form) is just a soul, no corporeal body. When Desmond pulled the cork, Smokey lost his soul, but became a body. And everyone else did too (this ties into Sayid dying and being thrown into the holy water and coming back, but 'feeling nothing'. He had no soul!). Jack, Kate, Hurley, none of them had souls while the cork was removed. This would allow MIB to leave the island as he has matter now and is not just a soul, but it also allowed him to become mortal. And Jack too.

So they fight each other and MIB goes over the cliff and is dead, yay, but hey, we still don't have souls. And Jack realized (or Jensen postulates that he realized) that we probably need our souls. So he goes back and puts the cork back in, everyone gets their souls back, but he's still mortally wounded and dies.

Jensen says we need souls to get into the afterlife. If the cork had been permanently removed, no one anywhere would have had a soul and no one anywhere would have moved on which thus leads to 'all hell breaking loose'. By putting the cork back, Jack ensured that his friends and everyone else in the world would be able to move in.

Much like Jesus Christ sacrificing himself so that people might get everlasting salvation....

I hope Vincent's in the afterlife, but if you believe animals don't have souls, that would explain why he wasn't in the Holy Church of All Religions....


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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 4:59 pm 
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Bennett wrote:
it doesn't require that assumption, bringing people to the island just increases the possibility of the shit hitting the fan


What about this:

a.) People can come to the island without Jacob's help.

b.) MIB needs a person to kill Jacob before he can leave.

c.) Jacob knows that MIB has figured out that he needs a person.

d.) Jacob realizes that MIB has a good possibility of convincing ANYONE to kill Jacob. He's very persuasive that way.

e.) Jacob thinks, well, he's gonna kill me eventually. He'll use one of these people, or people who find the island in the future. I should probably try to find someone to replace me since he will eventually kill me.

f.) Jacob looks at the current people on the island and does not like the prospects.

g.) Jacob starts bringing a handful of new people to the island at a time to see if they're good replacements.

h.) MIB finally finds the person he can convince to kill Jacob. Jacob hasn't found a replacement in time.

Now, you can argue that Jacob could have just as easily killed every person who ever found the island so that MIB could never influence anyone,but a.) that doesn't seem to be Jacob's style and b.) if that were the case, there wouldn't be a show.


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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Bennett wrote:
it doesn't require that assumption, bringing people to the island just increases the possibility of the shit hitting the fan

Without that assumption, you're essentially stating that inaction is necessarily safer than action.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2010 8:51 pm 
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BastardSuperstar wrote:
red herring.

I like the Buzz Lightyear commercial. Did anyone notice the box in the beginning of it?

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:26 am 
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corggirl, i think that's surely a possible explanation, and probably right on line with what the writers would say if you forced them to. here's a couple things though. first: occam's razor. that's a pretty complex explanation, compared to, "i have to protect this island, so i won't bring any people to it."

second: i don't believe that MIB necessarily needed Jacob dead to leave the island as much as he needed someone to pull the cork (i liked Doc Jensen's article, btw). if MIB just needed the protector of the island dead, then wouldn't it make sense that he could have just left after Jacob died? technically at that point there was no protector, only candidates. maybe he didn't know this, or maybe there were some other rules... anyhow, this all leads to my next point which is Desmond. we don't know whether or not Desmond was originally brought to the island by Jacob... however, if we are to believe Widmore, Jacob came to him and told him to bring Desmond back to the island. Desmond had been to the island, escaped the island, and under no circumstances wanted to ever go back to the island. this is also the one person that could pull the plug and potentially destroy the island and free MIB. Is it worth the risk, just because you feel bad about killing your brother and you want to kill him again?

and if we're going to talk about Jacob's way, we shouldn't overlook the fact that he's not afraid to break his share of eggs. Plenty of people didn't survive the crash of 815. So it's not like he didn't kill more than a few people just to get his candidates to the island. sure he didn't do it with his bare hands, but you know what i'm saying... they didn't kill each other in this instance at least.

so yeah, there wouldn't be a show or it would go in a different direction at least. i'm not disappointed with the show because i feel like i didn't get answers... i'm disappointed because it doesn't seem like "what they died for" was validated. it's like a reverse jesus, they died for jacob's sins.

i'm satisfied that i differ from a lot of people here on this issue. and i'm pretty firm in that this is something that isn't going to stop bugging me about the show. i really only brought it up again to show the different things that people are willing to give a pass/suspend belief/rationalize.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 8:28 am 
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Here's a nice little tidbit for all the "that wreckage at the end proves they all died in the crash" people out there:

- ABC says the final images that aired over the Lost credits were added by the network "to allow the viewer to decompress before heading into the news."


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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 9:40 am 
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Ha! just noticed your new avitar abstraction. Nice.


Last edited by bug on Wed May 26, 2010 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:11 am 
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bug wrote:
Ha! just noticed your new avitar abstraction abstraction. Nice.

Thanks. Hopefully, it's vague enough not to spoil anything for the stragglers, and it's less scatological than "Great #2."

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 Post subject: Re: Lost Season 6 - The Answers
PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 11:24 am 
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Neverseenlost wrote:
Regardless, this older couple has stuff figured out. They got a dog and set up some shanties. Now we’re cookin’ with gas. Um, also, they built their houses in ’75. Then there was a flash of light and now they don’t know when they are.

….

Ok.

….

I love that the time travel was discussed so little in the final season that NSL still doesn't know what this means.

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