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 Post subject: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:10 am 
Mothra
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I'm not anti-soundman. We're a moderately difficult band to deal with, so I tend to cut them some slack anyway. As long as they're not total dipshits (like, not knowing what a DI is), I'm very appreciative of the effort they do. My question is this: If the guy is a blatantly forward ass-clown and ruins your show, why should he get paid? It's rare, but we've had guys that thought they'd set up the board and left for the remainder of the show, guys who apologized for being stoned, and a guy who once told me, "I just took a ton of shrooms, so in about 15 minutes I'm gonna be completely useless." In rare instances like this, I think it should be fair that a band not fork over their draw to pay this guy... without fear of repercussion. I always hear when talking to owners about how much professionalism matters when it comes to bands, so why do they not give a damn about their sound guy. I mean, unless you're Bernie's, is that the kind of reputation you want to have?

We use 3 DI's on stage (soon to be 4), so there's a lot going on. A perfect stage mix almost never happens. though Dan @ Ruby's pulled it off last time we were there. I can't begin to tell you what a difference it makes.... but you already know that.

I'm not trolling for hate here, I really want to know if you think it's an asshole move to call out a shitty soundman to an owner.


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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:14 am 
King Ghidorah
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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:20 am 
Godzilla
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Yes, but frankly the bar should pay them not the band. For that matter, the bar should just pay the bands too - it's how most places in Cinci do it, and it works well; usually there's no cover which gets more people in the door, gives them more to spend on drinks/merch and everyone's happy.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:33 am 
King Ghidorah
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4 Di's? Perhaps you should look at getting your own lil stage mixer to connect and mangage your DI(s) mix to the main board.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:34 am 
King Ghidorah
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For some rooms, on most days, the PA systems that some local venues use are overkill. If you have a light crowd in a room with shiny surfaces, there is not need to crank the shit up to poop inducing levels. Most of the time, in certain venues, vocals are probably the only thing that needs to go through the PA.

I wrote this for a local sound guy. My monitors usually get cut when we play it.:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 11:53 am 
Mothra
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Yeah, was thinking about switching to a mixer to handle it. If comes to 4, I think that's what we'll do. We played a tiny room once and I asked what they'd planned on mic-ing. I agree with ya Billy, except that I would add the bass drum to the mix as well. It doesn't have to be loud, but if it's not mic'd , it's barely there. at least if anyone else is playing through any significant amplification. Anyways, when I asked the guy if he wanted to mic anything on the kit (hinting at the kick) he said "no(understandably), but we might mic the snare." Um... really?

We've actually had many more pleasant experiences with sound guys than bad. It's just that at some places (nicer ones too) we've run into the type of behavior I'm talking about. It's those instances where I'd like to tell the owner that we'd like our $150 for sound back. Perhaps if it happens again, I will. I the venue has a problem with it, I guess we'll never have the opportunity to have a show ruined by a drunk asshole there. Or maybe they'll fire him and get someone in that knows how to work. I know there are plenty of people willing an capable of doing just that.


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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:10 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Lackluster wrote:
I really want to know if you think it's an asshole move to call out a shitty soundman to an owner.


No, not at all. The problem with our profession is that anyone can say they are a soundman. There is no "soundman degree" defining any skill levels at all.
Frankly, in your situation, it might be best to be as self-sufficent as possible and submix your DI channels. When and if you do smell a big pile of poo again, dont wait till the end of the show to say anything, complain earlier and you might get a discount or another soundguy lol. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to my hookers and blow. You need more what in the monitors? Huh? And Billy my soundman song is better than yours.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:36 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Snarky wrote:
And Billy my soundman song is better than yours.


You are snarky.

Can I hear it? I'm sure all of your songs are better than mine.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:39 pm 
King Ghidorah
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haha... my experiences with sound guys have been generally bad. many of them are failed or failing musicians that are often bitter. they hop up on stage and start barking out orders like a marine sargent, "YOU THINK YOU'RE SETTING UP THERE MAGGOT?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU, DID YER MOMMA DROP YOU ON YER HEAD?!"
they always act like you should know exactly what they want.
now.. it's not all sound guys of course..

LOL.. this one sound guy in dayton hated my band.. whatever.. but he took it as an insult that we graced his stage.. came up to me after the show and started personally insulting me "fuck you blah blah.. can't believe your shitty band was booked blah blah.. fucking asshole yadda yadda..." i really didn't care what he thought.. it was a bar we figured wouldn't like us (think alrosa 15 years ago, seriously had giant signed posters of hair bands all over the walls.. the cream of the crop and tons of it..).. but he was getting up in the grill.. very nearly came to blows. what a fucking nut case.
funny thing is a lot of people came up after our set and said it was awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:46 pm 
Godzilla
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To be fair, if I had to run sound for local bands every night, I'd grow to hate them too.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:49 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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BillyCool wrote:
Snarky wrote:
And Billy my soundman song is better than yours.


You are snarky.

Can I hear it? I'm sure all of your songs are better than mine.


Ur gonna have to wait I dont have a copy at home lol.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 12:49 pm 
King Ghidorah
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unpossibles wrote:
To be fair, if I had to run sound for local bands every night, I'd grow to hate them too.


understood.. but yer depending on them to do a job they're getting paid for. don't like it, get out.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:09 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Snarky wrote:
BillyCool wrote:
Snarky wrote:
And Billy my soundman song is better than yours.


You are snarky.

Can I hear it? I'm sure all of your songs are better than mine.


Ur gonna have to wait I dont have a copy at home lol.


I'll go ahead and back this statement so as to make it true:
Snarks soundman song is better than any soundman song.


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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 1:13 pm 
King Ghidorah
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I can't wait to hear this soundguy song. When will it be posted?

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:07 pm 
Jet Jaguar

Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:43 pm
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As someone that runs sound at a few clubs in town, as well as perform out, I can certainly sympathize with your problem. It's tough to find a good engineer and there are really only a few clubs that have what i would consider to be an adequate system/room.

If you are considering doing a mixer to consolidate your number of DI's, I would be careful. Most clubs have more than one stage mix for a reason, different performers like to hear the stage mix different. if you keep the signals separate, you can EQ, Compress and Mix all of the channels different on stage and then mix them to the room. Just my opinion though. Not sure about what your stage mix issues are but if they are due to not being able to hear your vocals, you may want to play instruments through amps and not use DI's through the monitors. If you have 4 keys going through one monitor, it could get muddy when you start to really push the speaker.

But also realize that you are not just paying for the engineer but the sound system. If you want to avoid that price, feel free to bring your own PA, otherwise the club needs to have someone that they trust to run the equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:15 pm 
Mothra
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Yeah, we'll be running two synths, a sampler, and an acoustic. I'm sure as hell not going to buy amps for all of those... so we'll think of something. We may just buy our own DI's and bring them with us. A mixer seems like it would only create more problems.


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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:19 pm 
Godzilla
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Snarky's soundman song vs. all of billy cool's "coolection" is probably like the time my brother gave Ed Beers a Hank Aaron for the entire 1969 Mets team, except in this case, it would be like Ed giving him the Montreal Expos, instead. Haha. I don't even know wtf that means, but, I but Snark runs some good sound.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:41 pm 
King Ghidorah
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You don't have to play at places that have shitty sound/shitty sound guy either.

Some places you can request your own sound guy, or say you prefer guyA to guyB out of the two engineers the bar employs.

I haven't really dealt with any overt conflicts with sound guys here but it's pretty easy to tell when they don't like you (your band and/or you personally). You'd like the whole "professionalism" thing blah blah to spur them to overcome their dislike and just do a good job......but that usually doesn't happen.

Still, there are more good soundguys than bad here, I think. But getting anyone to run sound the way that you think uniquely fits your band is quite a challenge...

And really, unless you know for sure you're never going to and never want to play at that venue again...it's probably not a good idea to ask for money back.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:44 pm 
King Ghidorah
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thefiercelime wrote:
Snarky's soundman song vs. all of billy cool's "coolection" is probably like the time my brother gave Ed Beers a Hank Aaron for the entire 1969 Mets team, except in this case, it would be like Ed giving him the Montreal Expos, instead. Haha. I don't even know wtf that means, but, I but Snark runs some good sound.


I don't what any of that means either, but I love the term "coolection". I think it will make it's way into an album title. Maybe the greatest hits box set.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 4:25 pm 
Jet Jaguar

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For an acoustic I would go DI for sure. Same for the Sampler. For the Synths maybe get 1 amp to use for both. You can use anything from a guitar amp to a bass amp. You shouldnt need to buy your own DI's but some clubs, like the treehouse may not have enough. For the acoustic, do you have an EQ on the guitar? If not i would suggest an LR Baggs Preamp. It's like $150 but can make just about any acoustic sound good. Got one for my acoustic and i love it.

and dont be afraid to say what it is you dont like about the stage mix. to bright, to muddy, ect. if you dont know or can't tell, maybe just turn down.

what band are you in?


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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 5:15 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Lackluster wrote:
Yeah, we'll be running two synths, a sampler, and an acoustic.


I had a feeling your band was going to be the worst :oops: :oops: :oops:

& :cry: :

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 6:06 pm 
Mothra
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http://www.myspace.com/lacklusterband

Yeah the AC gtr has a pre on it. Not everything is running constantly. The sampler runs through almost every song, and we need that in the mix... but I rarely get guitar bass or even much vocals. I was thinking about getting in-ear monitors, but I have some that won't stay put. I move around a lot, so I need fitted ones. We try to be as accommodating for soundguys as possible though, because we know our setup can be a pain in the ass to deal with. We bring a shitload of gear, but get it all on/off the stage within 5 minutes. The trick... for all of those who like to loiter on stage after their set.... wrap your cables when you get off the stage.
Also, I tend to not blame the soundguy for every shitty mix we get. I know some places operate with damaged speakers that they for some reason refuse to replace. I know things like that are factors. I just think in-ears are they best way to eliminate that factor. It's just the soundguys that tells me they're stoned, or drunk, or whatever that piss me off. I mean, they're taking $150 or more from the door. I hate to be a prick, but we work hard, show up early, promote our shows, etc. and so did the other bands. Granted, we do that because it's part of what we love to do, but the least the soundguy could do is respect that much and be capable of doing the job we're paying him to do. I'm really only talking like 10% of guys we've worked with locally. The other 90% do a great job. I might have already said this, but Dan @ Ruby's ran sound for us the last time we were there. I couldn't have been happier with the stage sound. That kind of thing really leaves an impression as well.

As for "wigger" boy... if you had to slightest ambition to know what you speak of before opening your mouth, you might click on the link in my profile and take a look/listen for yourself. But I posted it up top for you as well. I know... acoustic guitar, synths, samplers... but we sound nothing like Incubus. Please excuse the quality... rough mixes and demos.


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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 8:56 pm 
Godzilla
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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:13 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Welcome to The Frinship Farm, Lackluster. If you thought Craigslist was full of assholes, you're gonna love it here.

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 Post subject: Re: should live sound always get paid?
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2010 10:32 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Mikepoint3 wrote:
Band: Salvage
Song: Soundman

http://fucktownpowerboys.com/music/soundman.mp3

"The Soundman's the first one to blame ... "


Here you go Billy. Thanks Mike! Enjoy!

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