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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:05 pm 
Godzilla
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jeff wrote:
underspecialization wrote:
http://www.3rdward.com/

Forgive me for asking, but is that an organization to be emulated, or is it an example of the corporate counterculture fleecing artists?

Being old and not from Brooklyn, I can't always tell the difference.

I feel like I've been baited Jeff. So, for now, I'd have to answer: a bit of both.

I don't have time to respond fully right now. I'll get back to you.

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:30 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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underspecialization wrote:
jeff wrote:
underspecialization wrote:
http://www.3rdward.com/

Forgive me for asking, but is that an organization to be emulated, or is it an example of the corporate counterculture fleecing artists?

Being old and not from Brooklyn, I can't always tell the difference.

I feel like I've been baited Jeff. So, for now, I'd have to answer: a bit of both.

I don't have time to respond fully right now. I'll get back to you.

I didn't mean to bait you, it was an honest question - even with my little jokey-joke. :oops:

...and I can see it being a bit of both too. On the one hand, if they're connecting artists with one another, providing facilities and classes that people can't normally get access to, and supporting collaboration amongst like-minded people, that's all good, right?

On the other hand, having to pay for membership can sometimes be a sign of trouble. I've never really felt good about galleries/studios that were membership based.

Also, some of the people in the pictures look kind of douchey...earnest and well-meaning mind you...but douchey too.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:45 pm 
Godzilla
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Non-profit or not, the goal of people behind any endeavor is to make money. No one of these people would willingly devote so much time and money if there wasn't a way to make a bundle off it. It's not an altruistic thing just because it's in the name of "Art." It is a corporation with the corporate-minded in power who will do anything to make big bucks. The bigger, the better.

In 3rd ward's case, to my knowledge and understanding, they have removed people from residential buildings for the space, forced businesses to retreat to smaller, less appropriate spaces and sometimes close their doors, and generally walked all over any one or any thing that is 'in their way.' Generally, abused their power and money for the sake of gaining more of both, all in the name of 'creativity' and 'art' and 'artist.' I'm not saying it's all bad, but I am echoing Rollie's statement to "Beware."

This is a quick reply. There's more, but out of time again..

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:54 pm 
Godzilla
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underspecialization wrote:
Non-profit or not, the goal of people behind any endeavor is to make money.


i can assure you that this is simply not true. this statement is super insulting to all of us working in the nonprofit field.

it is my hope that wonderland will help add more resources and opportunities and will be a good thing for columbus artists.

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:21 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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underspecialization wrote:
Non-profit or not, the goal of people behind any endeavor is to make money. No one of these people would willingly devote so much time and money if there wasn't a way to make a bundle off it. It's not an altruistic thing just because it's in the name of "Art." It is a corporation with the corporate-minded in power who will do anything to make big bucks. The bigger, the better.

In 3rd ward's case, to my knowledge and understanding, they have removed people from residential buildings for the space, forced businesses to retreat to smaller, less appropriate spaces and sometimes close their doors, and generally walked all over any one or any thing that is 'in their way.' Generally, abused their power and money for the sake of gaining more of both, all in the name of 'creativity' and 'art' and 'artist.' I'm not saying it's all bad, but I am echoing Rollie's statement to "Beware."

This is a quick reply. There's more, but out of time again..

Don't feel like you have to sweat the details on my account. I think I get the drift. You've got first-hand knowledge and experience with an arts cooperative that's gone bad, and because of that you're skeptical of this initiative. That makes sense to me. I guess we should consider ourselves warned and hope for the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:03 pm 
Godzilla
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girl.e wrote:
underspecialization wrote:
Non-profit or not, the goal of people behind any endeavor is to make money.


i can assure you that this is simply not true. this statement is super insulting to all of us working in the nonprofit field.

Apologies. I'm really not articulate enough to argue about this. You certainly have first-hand experience and the last thing I intended to do was insult you or anyone in the np world.

All we need now is for Annie Oakley to come blaring out of crazy town to make this all better. :wink:

Quote:
it is my hope that wonderland will help add more resources and opportunities and will be a good thing for columbus artists.

And so it is mine, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:19 pm 
Godzilla
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underspecialization wrote:
girl.e wrote:
underspecialization wrote:
Non-profit or not, the goal of people behind any endeavor is to make money.


i can assure you that this is simply not true. this statement is super insulting to all of us working in the nonprofit field.

Apologies. I'm really not articulate enough to argue about this. You certainly have first-hand experience and the last thing I intended to do was insult you or anyone in the np world.


and i don't mean to discount in anyway your bad experience with a seemingly nonprofit situation. obviously, there are nonprofits that are not fiscally responsible but my experience has been that those are the exceptions and not the rule. i also think that a healthy dose of cautiousness is an excellent compliment to idealism. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:44 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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from the people who brought u 'indie art capital of the world'

comes

wonderland

my only hope and prayer is that they hire some smell makers to create that delicious smell that filled the neighborhood as much as their egos fill columbusunderground.com

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:17 pm 
Mechagodzilla

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Dagger dagger wrote:
from the people who brought u 'indie art capital of the world'


Exactly.

You know, I'm fine with people making money from their art, but this press release just uses liberal terminology to cover-up the fact that it's a business venture. They have retail space and art studios available, and they need to fill them, and you're supposed to get real excited about it because they're handing out some beers.

Honest questions:

Does Columbus need more studio space?

More gallery space?

What sort of a non-profit is this? Does this status give certain advantages to the retailers of Wonderbreadland as compared to a for-profit retail shop?

Skepticism is healthy. I'm just discussing this new development rather than just swallowing that corny press release as the truth...


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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:41 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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I know Dave, and what he has done with Sandbox is incredible. He is a great asset to anything he puts his energy behind and is one hell of a dude. I have nothing but excitement for this project. Go to the meeting. You might have some of your fears allayed.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:05 am 
Godzilla
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Rollie wrote:

Does Columbus need more studio space?

More gallery space?



just off the top of my head...i know a group of 30 ccad students who have been searching for months for affordable studio space all together...so far they've not been successful.

i also know some of the studio/shared working spaces in town have long waitlists or, like sandbox short north, could really use more room.

also, the cmc, gets tons of requests for people looking for practices spaces...so while those are just three anecdotal examples, my perception is that there is a need for more arts resources, especially space.

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:43 am 
Jet Jaguar
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Rollie wrote:
Honest questions:

Does Columbus need more studio space?

I think it might. Milo Arts recently lost its bankruptcy protection, and while I haven't followed the story closely they appear to be on shaky ground. This might cause artists to look for alternatives. I understand too that Junctionview Studios consistently has a waiting list for their studios. Closer to home, I heard somewhere that Wild Goose Creative might be taking over additional store fronts on Summit to develop studio space for artists. My hunch is they wouldn't be taking on that kind of expansion if they didn't think there was a demand.

Rollie wrote:
More gallery space?

In my opinion, yes. Look at how many local artists are showing in retail spaces, businesses, and restaurants. While this is a nice gesture on the part of businesses, I expect most of the artists would prefer to exhibit in a gallery setting.

Rollie wrote:
What sort of a non-profit is this? Does this status give certain advantages to the retailers of Wonderbreadland as compared to a for-profit retail shop?

I have no idea what the governing structure will look like. If I had to guess, I'd say it will probably be similar to the North Market's. The North Market is administered by the non-profit North Market Development Board. Most people consider it to be a successful venture and one that ultimately benefits the community.

Rollie wrote:
Skepticism is healthy. I'm just discussing this new development rather than just swallowing that corny press release as the truth...

Sounds good.


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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:27 am 
Godzilla
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jeff wrote:
I'm surprised that this announcement is being met with suspicion and cynicism.

You're new to the internet, aren't you? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:37 am 
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Rollie wrote:

Does Columbus need more studio space?

More gallery space?



more so than we need vacant industrial space. or condos.

I agree some skepticism is healthy, but as far as projects that raise my personal red flags, this one is fairly innocuous.

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:59 am 
Godzilla

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Rollie wrote:
Dagger dagger wrote:
from the people who brought u 'indie art capital of the world'


Exactly.

You know, I'm fine with people making money from their art, but this press release just uses liberal terminology to cover-up the fact that it's a business venture. They have retail space and art studios available, and they need to fill them, and you're supposed to get real excited about it because they're handing out some beers.

Honest questions:

Does Columbus need more studio space?

More gallery space?

What sort of a non-profit is this? Does this status give certain advantages to the retailers of Wonderbreadland as compared to a for-profit retail shop?

Skepticism is healthy. I'm just discussing this new development rather than just swallowing that corny press release as the truth...



hold up, they're handing out beers?

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:48 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Adam Smith wrote:
girl.e wrote:
Rollie wrote:
With all the business-minded individuals involved I think it's a stretch to call this non-profit. Beware of the self-serving "innovative entrepreneurs" contributing to your local arts community.


i don't understand this leap at all. that's like saying the bill and melinda gates foundation, which is an awesome nonprofit, isn't one because it's founded by business-minded individuals...


The danger is that the people running the non-profit will be calling it a non-profit, and talking the whole "we're all about arts infrastructure" game, but actually using it to siphon money away from the arts communities into their own pockets by paying themselves big salaries to run it or by personally owning big chunks of property that the non-profit bought, or whatever.

I'm not talking about this organization, because I don't know anything about it. Just clarifying what I think Rollies point is. I'm glad when anybody is doing anything proactive in Columbus.


oh come on... so cynical... that NEVER happens...
and what is this beer you speak of?

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:22 am 
Mechagodzilla
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Im totally going.

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:45 am 
Godzilla
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Snarky wrote:
Im totally going.

maybe you can get them to help you pave over the grass behind ravari rm.. :wink: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:30 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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underspecialization wrote:
Snarky wrote:
Im totally going.

maybe you can get them to help you pave over the grass behind ravari rm.. :wink: :lol:


they started without me. And a petwhatever next door! Yippie!

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:15 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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bummed i can't make the meeting, but i am sending my real estate agent instead. :shifty: :shock: :shock: :shifty: :shifty: :shock: :shock: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
VERY interested in how you can house multiple businesses in one place and get non-profit tax benefits :shifty: :shifty: :shifty:
:cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:48 pm 
King Ghidorah
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christopher lasch wrote:

VERY interested in how you can house multiple businesses in one place and get non-profit tax benefits :shifty: :shifty: :shifty:
:cry:



Some sort of church maybe?

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:52 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Dude that meeting was packed to the gills! Claustrophbia kicked in had to jet.

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:53 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Bo Davis wrote:
christopher lasch wrote:

VERY interested in how you can house multiple businesses in one place and get non-profit tax benefits :shifty: :shifty: :shifty:
:cry:



Some sort of church maybe?



lol

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:58 pm 
Godzilla
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christopher lasch wrote:
VERY interested in how you can house multiple businesses in one place and get non-profit tax benefits :shifty: :shifty: :shifty:
:cry:

There's an art to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Wonderland
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:54 pm 
Donewaiting Comfest Commitee Liaison
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Dagger dagger wrote:
from the people who brought u 'indie art capital of the world'

comes

wonderland

my only hope and prayer is that they hire some smell makers to create that delicious smell that filled the neighborhood as much as their egos fill columbusunderground.com


Blood, it is a Kroger bakery across the way. Not the Wonderbread jawnt.


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