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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:15 pm 
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DoctorRock wrote:
I suspect that he was dumped by his girlfriend for being the complete douche nozzle that he is and that he probably deserved it.

I also suspect that he feels somewhat responsible for his mother's death from bad plastic surgery since he probably gave her the money to get it.

The only logical next step is to take a shit into a computer and have it processed into little glittery turdlets of agony.

Is that better?


Yeah, that is better. I thought we could have an intelligent conversation about this but I was wrong. Thanks for clearing that up.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:55 pm 
Godzilla
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I apologize. I just think that Kanye is half-assing it and that people shouldn't call him a crooner when he can't really sing. You kept insisting that the autotune was an artistic choice even in the light of proof that he couldn't carry a tune. Maybe it's both reasons. Maybe the choice of using the autotune was born out of the fact that he can't sing and as convenience would have it, he wanted to sound like a robot anyway so it worked out for him.

So you didn't think "little glittery turdlets of agony" was funny?


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:52 pm 
King Ghidorah
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my stance on this album is that i can't stand auto tune... but i am a kanye fan, and college drop out was probably the last rap album that i spent alot of time with and felt like i could gain something from (other than dilla-donuts, but thats different)... with the packaging i was hoping he was gonna make a good version of puffys solo album from last year (two years?).... seemed like a new order nod... i tried listening to it and i can't dig on the auto tune... when i hear that shit, i just wish the person had a fucking vocoder... but that is just me... if he did this record with all vocals through a vocoder, i would probably melt down the vinyl and drink it.... i think that he has jumped the shark... he went from being vulnerable and also being a great rapper... to telling people he is a great rapper and that he is vulnerable....

yeah!

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:01 am 
King Ghidorah
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Godammit I'm too drunk to edven attempt to respond to anyone with any llegitimate argument.

Rollie...sorry for doubting you. I acutally agree with mostly everything you said. But um I can't tell you why till tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:16 am 
Mechagodzilla

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when t-pain gets chopped and screwed i wonded if he makes the girls use a vocoder

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:40 am 
Godzilla

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I've been trying so hard to stay out of this, but this thread is like an accident. I can't seem to look away.

First of all, I can't stand Kanye I've never really been able to tolerate him. He's corny and always has been. I disagree with his fashion statements as well, but none of that is relevent.

I watched the SNL stuff with my wife recently and I listened to the album last night. My opinions on both are unimportant.

The thing that's making me crazy is mostly the bitching about auto tune. Do you really think that dude was trying to use auto tune to correct bad notes in his singing? I find that hard to believe. If he were it would be much more subtle and most of you wouldn't even notice it. It would be like some Taylor Swift shit or something. I don't know. The point is, it wouldn't sound like a robot, you know? I agree with Carney that he should've just used a vocoder. It would've been way cooler, but that isn't the trend right now. The trend is to use auto tune to do that weird robot sound. Why aren't y'all bitching about T-Pain or L'il Wayne? They both use that effect.

I have no real desire to argue about this. As I stated, I can't stand the dude and I'm not fond of the auto tune effect, but there are lot of weird comments being thrown around.



jap city are awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:32 pm 
Mechagodzilla

Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:04 pm
Posts: 1872
Wesley Flexner wrote:
1.doctor rock gonzo et al...i really don't have the energy for the whole rockist debate..cause i think the effects of anti-rockism sometimes let rock critics set up things on different slant the wrong way too...

but ""A rockist isn't just someone who loves rock 'n' roll, who goes on and on about Bruce Springsteen, who champions ragged-voiced singer-songwriters no one has ever heard of. A rockist is someone who reduces rock 'n' roll to a caricature, then uses that caricature as a weapon. Rockism means idolizing the authentic old legend (or underground hero) while mocking the latest pop star; lionizing punk while barely tolerating disco; loving the live show and hating the music video; extolling the growling performer while hating the lip-syncher. " By KELEFA SANNEH NYTimes October 31, 2004."

but really i like auto-tune so we are gonna go very far.
it makes shit sound like robots. futuristic and such
who is william holiday?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/31/arts/ ... wanted=all


2-rollie-rappers been staying and copping gear forever....
and disrespecting woman who can't defend themselves.

as far as "all falls down"

"[Verse - Kanye West]
Man I promise, she's so self conscious
She has no idea what she's doing in college
That major that she majored in don't make no money
But she won't drop out, her parents will look at her funny
Now, tell me that ain't insecurrre
The concept of school seems so securrre
Sophmore three yearrrs aint picked a careerrr
She like fuck it, I'll just stay down herre and do hair
Cause that's enough money to buy her a few pairs of new Airs
Cause her baby daddy don't really care
She's so precious with the peer pressure
Couldn't afford a car so she named her daughter Alexus (a Lexus)
She had hair so long that it looked like weave
Then she cut it all off now she look like Eve
And she be dealing with some issues that you can't believe
Single black female addicted to retail and well

[Chorus - repeat 2x (w/ Kanye ad-libs)]

[Verse - Kanye West]
Man I promise, I'm so self conscious
That's why you always see me with at least one of my watches
Rollies and Pasha's done drove me crazy
I can't even pronounce nothing, pass that versace!
Then I spent 400 bucks on this
Just to be like nigga you ain't up on this!
And I can't even go to the grocery store
Without some ones thats clean and a shirt with a team
It seems we living the american dream
But the people highest up got the lowest self esteem
The prettiest people do the ugliest things
For the road to riches and diamond rings
We shine because they hate us, floss cause they degrade us
We trying to buy back our 40 acres
And for that paper, look how low we a'stoop
Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coop/coupe

[Chorus - repeat 2x (w/ Kanye ad-libs)]

[Verse - Kanye West]
I say fuck the police, thats how I treat em
We buy our way out of jail, but we can't buy freedom
We'll buy a lot of clothes when we don't really need em
Things we buy to cover up what's inside
Cause they make us hate ourself and love they wealth
That's why shortys hollering "where the ballas' at?"
Drug dealer buy Jordans, crackhead buy crack
And a white man get paid off of all of that
But I ain't even gon act holier than thou
Cause fuck it, I went to Jacob with 25 thou
Before I had a house and I'd do it again
Cause I wanna be on 106 and Park pushing a Benz
I wanna act ballerific like it's all terrific
I got a couple past due bills, I won't get specific
I got a problem with spending before I get it
We all self conscious I'm just the first to admit it"



. kanye was the first artist on a mainstream level to not draw a line in the sand.
where it's either "my fur game is at all time high" or "i'm sick of versace glasses" but explain this materialistic aspect of hip hop culture exists because people are compensating for something..

i remember a q-tip interview i read where he said that alot of nihilism in rap exist because people are getting shot..poverty all that stuff
but hip hop culture didn't allow vulnerability so even though cats are depressed....
the only way to channel it is in violence, and anger.

if you recall all the questions about minstrel culture
you know
are black artists are allowed to express themselves as individuals by corperations and white listeners?
then "all falls down" is actually a really important song.

if you don't like kanye i feel it. he can be annoying. and the pity party that he throws for himself on this record is kinda hard to stomach...like i mean if you
want a sports car, and a kid with a report card you could prolly have them both..

but i really like the album. 1.cause i think it sounds good. 2.its mainstream manifestation of the fact that radiohead and t-pain get alot of burn within the black music community...


but...i feel you doug

jap city is hilarious

http://nerdwithswag.com/negroes-with-purses-video/


Cool man, nice post. I was hoping you'd chime in.

And I agree that he was the first rapper in a long time to draw a line the sand, and for a while he straddled that line really, really well. Not only that, but he made really awesome beats, used interesting samples and had a truly innovative sound to go along with everything new he was saying.

But he lost me with the last album, its videos, and his public image as a whole beginning last year. His shit still sounds great, and I am glad you can honestly admit to why you are liking it rather than come up with some other defense - not that there aren't some other valid reasons out there, but I can tell you are being blunt and truthful with yours.

It is really good that Kanye has continued to try and bring in a lot of influences that haven't been fully explored to mainstream rap - whether it be Gary Numan, Radiohead, what have you - and make them palatable for the market. He still straddles that line really well. But I guess I'm disappointed that he's jumped the shark thematically, because I feel like with Rap music the themes you present are just as essential as the sound of the music to the overall feel of what you are doing.

But I've lost touch with a lot of his contemporaries and feel like I'm getting in over my head with this discussion.

In summary, this:

mikecarney wrote:
he went from being vulnerable and also being a great rapper... to telling people he is a great rapper and that he is vulnerable....


Well said Mike. I guess I just at least want people to think about the things they listen to, and understand the products they consume.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:35 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Independent Playground wrote:
Why aren't y'all bitching about T-Pain or L'il Wayne? They both use that effect.


Maybe because unlike Kanye, some of us never expected anything good out of T-Pain and L'il Wayne.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:45 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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Rollie wrote:
I guess I just at least want people to think about the things they listen to, and understand the products they consume.


Do these same moral rules of music apply to The Unholy Two?

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:56 pm 
Mechagodzilla

Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:04 pm
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Absolutely. If that's how you want to re-interpret my words.

It's not so much a "moral rule" as a hope that you at least think about why you like something. It doesn't always have to be justified, it is the action of at least thinking about it that is important.

But I'm not going to argue with a troll.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:10 pm 
Godzilla

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song 6 is the shit.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:16 am 
King Ghidorah
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slowmoriot wrote:
Independent Playground wrote:
Why aren't y'all bitching about T-Pain or L'il Wayne? They both use that effect.


Maybe because unlike Kanye, some of us never expected anything good out of T-Pain and L'il Wayne.


and then we were surprised when t-pain and lil wayne became very excellent

i think lil wayne's music suffered more from the switch to autotune than kanye's did

i don't think this discussion would be happening if the disease hadn't spread into "white" music territory

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:24 am 
King Ghidorah
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Taylor Swift's Fearless is a good album. Please don't bring her into this discussion. I like what I'm reading.

Am I guilty for liking a few of these songs alot -- even though I hated the last Kanye?

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Last edited by Wumme Wenders on Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:52 am 
King Ghidorah
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sam craighead wrote:
slowmoriot wrote:
Independent Playground wrote:
Why aren't y'all bitching about T-Pain or L'il Wayne? They both use that effect.


Maybe because unlike Kanye, some of us never expected anything good out of T-Pain and L'il Wayne.


and then we were surprised when t-pain and lil wayne became very excellent


Hearing the last L'il Wayne collection of mixtape songs, I was heartbroken to know that his albums will never be that good because he has to produce hits. An artist fettered into mediocrity. Not by lack of talent but by the reality of what sells. He has bills to pay, so I forgive him.

T-Pain? Whatever. That dude has nothing to offer to my ears.

Kanye could have been the Peter Gabriel of the rap game (making popular music that was also interesting), but dropped the ball imho.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:59 pm 
King Ghidorah
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sam craighead wrote:
i don't think this discussion would be happening if the disease hadn't spread into "white" music territory



Seriously? :roll: This is your reasoning why some people find Kanye to be a sellout autotuner? Weak.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:07 pm 
Godzilla
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http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Fal ... 899&page=1

Quote:
From the moment West got on the mic at "SNL," it was clear something wasn't right. Rob Levine, executive editor of Billboard magazine, speculated West's weak voice had to do with a glitch in the autotune feature many artists use to stay on pitch while recording in the studio and rocking out live.

"Autotune allows you to hit every note perfectly. You're not going to be sharp or flat," Levine said. "I think the effect wasn't fully realized, [the autotune] might have been set up wrong. But it's foolish to suggest he was lip-syncing. If he were lip-syncing, it would've sounded exactly the way he wanted it to."

But even if West didn't lip-sync, Tyler Gray, Blender magazine's senior editor, isn't letting him off the hook.

"He was cheating. At the end of the day, did he make up for that lackluster element of his performance with something that balanced it out? I don't really think so. It was neat visuals, but the music wasn't quite up to par," said Gray.

"In the beginning, he got an A for effort because he was trying to break the mold," Gray said, referring to West's branching out from typical hip-hop techniques. "But the effort grade only goes so far. Now he actually has to sound good. And he didn't. He sounded like a bad talent show."


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:00 pm 
Mechagodzilla

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm
Posts: 1502
Wumme Wenders wrote:
Taylor Swift's Fearless is a good album. Please don't bring her into this discussion. I like what I'm reading.

Am I guilty for liking a few of these songs alot -- even though I hated the last Kanye?


No the last Kanye album is by far his worst record. He basically needed to rush out a dumbed down glossy hipsterish record to seize the time.
so it genuis in that aspect. but compared to the amount of effort and time put into late registation by kanye and jon brion, graduation was super half-assed.

but it was crucial with the whole beating 50 cent in sales thing in proving the american public was tired of bullies and excess in the george bush sense.

i almost think the 50 cent-kanye fued was a market screening for bush-obama.

my point. after kanye beat 50 he now had to seize the momentum of himself and wayne dominating the market with being weird by dropping the 4th quarter november after thankgiving record to follow-up graduation..

there was the no time to feed off jon brion like late registration.
can't afford to pitch up obvious samples like college drop-out.
the half-assing of feeding off of a-trak's awareness of pitchfork hipsterism reach its most successful point with graduation.

d-a-n-c-e

so kanye took a more artistic step forward by trying to make a sad depressing electronic record that could be executed quickly.
which is much better than if he would've followed up graduation with another simplfied hipster hop album.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:44 pm 
King Ghidorah
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808's "street lights" is stunning. ego and all.

re: Graduation - it had some great beats and production, but the songwriting lacked and some of those samples were predictable/over-used (daft punk song? it's a sample itself (edwin birdsong), so basically it's a double-sample? cheap).

But..."Flashing Lights" ? -- hear how Kells tears it up and makes it his own.



Maybe Kanye just needs to make a star-studded Marly Marl Vol. 1-esque multi-collab-mixtape of whatever tracks he does next?

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:24 pm 
Mechagodzilla

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Wumme Wenders wrote:
808's "street lights" is stunning. ego and all.

re: Graduation - it had some great beats and production, but the songwriting lacked and some of those samples were predictable/over-used (daft punk song? it's a sample itself (edwin birdsong), so basically it's a double-sample? cheap).

But..."Flashing Lights" ? -- hear how Kells tears it up and makes it his own.



Maybe Kanye just needs to make a star-studded Marly Marl Vol. 1-esque multi-collab-mixtape of whatever tracks he does next?


i liked him using the daft punk sample.you're right its double sample. ...a straight-up puff daddy move. so people calling kanye a sell-out for an autotune record are confused.

i guess college drop-out might have been marley marl in control meets the chronic.

i think as long as kanye is one of the three people who still sell records i doubt he will be spending enough time in the lab to pull off chronic 2001.
they will be forcing his records out every 8 months.
unless he finds his eminem or 50 cent to help him control the market without having to be the star
which he won't cause he likes rapping too much.

he prolly will just feed off of kid cudi, 88 keys and whoever a-trak is hanging out with for awhile.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:00 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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i wanna hear less of this FORCED MULTICULTURISM :sick: shit & more japcity.
america is GOD's country & the company i work for wont even throw a "holiday party".
i am another casualty in the war on christmas.
seriously, just drag my corpse through the short north :oops: :oops: :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:09 pm 
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japcity does not like rkellys part on flashing lights

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:10 pm 
King Ghidorah
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so glad I didnt pay for this crappy album.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:55 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:49 am 
Mechagodzilla

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http://www.rappersiknow.com/2008/11/24/ ... -autotune/

someone autotuned a bunch of hip hop classics.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:57 pm 
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