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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:52 pm 
Jet Jaguar
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bair_ohio wrote:
robertduffy wrote:
what autotune was created for and what it is used for ---- who cares, right?

i mean i like a lot of albums and songs that use found sounds or unique things as instruments and i'm never OMFG WHY DID HE USE A COWBELL FOR MUSIC WHEN IT SHOULD BE AROUND A COW'S NECK!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


I guess that would be me. I care. You apparently do as well or you wouldnt chime in here.

If it hasnt already been done, someone should create a program that just auto generates songs.


then at least you would have one good song on a record

POW!!!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:54 pm 
Godzilla
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Autotune was invented by an Exxon research scientist.

Fucking oil companies!!

Quote:
The History Of Auto-Tune
Ever wonder if T-Pain is actually a robot?
By Zak Neilson
Anyone who’s listened to Cher’s "Believe" or ever heard T-Pain will notice a particularly robotic sound to their voice. What you’re hearing is Auto-Tune, a recording effect designed by Dr. Harold Hildebrand to fix occasional vocal tuning problems; but when abused it can make anyone sound like a robot.
Dr. Hildebrand worked for 13 years as a research scientist for Exxon before founding Antares Audio Technologies in 1990 (Antares currently puts out 10 different effects on top of their updated version of Auto-Tune). He left Exxon in 1989 to return to the Shepard School of Music at Rice University and study music composition. Through his studies Dr. Hildebrand discovered and fixed one of the limitations of digital sampling at the time, the inability to create seamless loops in samples of multiple instrumentalists. After fixing this problem Dr. Hildebrand formed Jupiter systems to market his new program, Infinity. Infinity became the standard looping tool for pro sound design.
Following his success with Infinity, Dr. Hildebrand started working on new software effects for the emerging market he had helped establish. In 1997 Dr. Hildebrand’s company (now renamed) Antares released Auto-Tune to immediate success, which helped establish Antares’ reputation as a company delivering quality effects. Following its release, Auto-Tune quickly became the largest selling plug-in of all time. Eight years after its release Auto-Tune had its first “hit” with Cher’s "Believe"; today you can hear it used exclusively to create T-Pain’s signature sound. Though these are the more obvious uses of Auto-Tune, it’s used in studios all over to correct small vocal problems. The Boston Herald published an article in 2007 that contained Country stars Reba McEntire, Faith Hill and Tim McGraw confessing to using Auto-Tune in concert, claiming it’s a “safety net to guarantee a good performance". For $400 you too can get a copy of Auto-Tune and see if you can be the next robot musician to go platinum, gold grill not included.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:11 pm 
Mothra

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robertduffy wrote:
what autotune was created for and what it is used for ---- who cares, right?

i mean i like a lot of albums and songs that use found sounds or unique things as instruments and i'm never OMFG WHY DID HE USE A COWBELL FOR MUSIC WHEN IT SHOULD BE AROUND A COW'S NECK!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!



Right. And that's the difference - Kanye is using it as an effect, not a tool to hide a poor performance. I don't mind it as an effect, but I don't like listening to albums that use it to fix recordings, and try to make it sound natural. So right, sorta.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:19 pm 
Godzilla
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Walling1 wrote:
Kanye is using it as an effect, not a tool to hide a poor performance.


So what you are saying is that Kanye himself is the tool? Anyway... you gotta listen to the SNL performance before posting that one. That performance alone crushes any belief I might have previously had that he was using auto-tune as an effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:27 pm 
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I'd say we've pretty much made it right back to page 1.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:33 pm 
Godzilla
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I also give the thread merge a D-

I recommend a lockdown.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:38 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Thread merge? A Tool used by moderators to feel useful. Quit your hating :)--Derail subject and avoid the dreaded locked thread.

Bottom line is that performance was horrible. There is nothing to defend. It was the opposite of good, simple as that. I bet he even knows it. Hell, It would of been 100 times better if he hadn used the AT, at least then it would have been funny instead of uncomfortable to watch and listen. More cowbell? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:41 pm 
King Ghidorah
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DoctorRock wrote:
I also give the thread merge a D-

I recommend a lockdown.


Yeah, the topics were completely different. Are we going to merge all live reviews with the albums they are touring for now?


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:43 pm 
Godzilla
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bair_ohio wrote:
Bottom line is that performance was horrible. There is nothing to defend. It was the opposite of good, simple as that. I bet he even knows it


Actually he thinks it was good.

http://www.tmz.com/2008/12/15/kanye-in- ... -was-good/

TMZ wrote:
However, if you don't count the busted notes, the questionable dancing and the time he stopped trying to "sing," it wasn't that bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:47 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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slowmoriot wrote:
DoctorRock wrote:
I also give the thread merge a D-

I recommend a lockdown.


Yeah, the topics were completely different. Are we going to merge all live reviews with the albums they are touring for now?


Kanye makes it cranky

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:13 pm 
King Ghidorah
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DoctorRock wrote:
bair_ohio wrote:
Bottom line is that performance was horrible. There is nothing to defend. It was the opposite of good, simple as that. I bet he even knows it


Actually he thinks it was good.

http://www.tmz.com/2008/12/15/kanye-in- ... -was-good/

TMZ wrote:
However, if you don't count the busted notes, the questionable dancing and the time he stopped trying to "sing," it wasn't that bad.


Considering the guy thinks he is the messiah of music, of course he thought it was great.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:39 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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the same complaints about the live performance were the same vs the album so i wanted it all together because that is how i roll.


http://idolator.com/5109947/kanye-west- ... ew-minutes
Quote:

Kanye West On "Saturday Night Live": In Which Everyone On The Internet Becomes Simon Cowell For A Few Minutes

Kanye West was the musical guest on the holiday episode of Saturday Night Live, and his performance of "Love Lockdown" and "Heartless" resulted in catcalling from the usual suspects: "Disturbingly like a quiet man during bad karaoke"; "It sounded off... maybe just too much bragging about his sheer talent?"; "No surprise that Kanye West is the latest singer to sound like crap on SNL." (OK, at least that last bit recognizes that all the musical guests this year have had serious technical issues, but still.)



Kanye himself didn't seem all that distraught with his performances, posting them both on his blog shortly after they were bootlegged online. And why should he? Sure, the mixing of his voice was a little high in the grand scheme of things, but both performances were compelling, with Kanye seemingly becoming possessed by the tracks as he sang them. The struggle between his imperfect voice and the trying-its-damndest-to-fix-it Autotune was uncomfortable, but that was in many ways the point; hey, heartbreak ain't a pretty thing, even when you have the newest creature comforts (pills! fancy couches! beautiful women! luxury brands!) to "make it all better."

Perhaps it was because I saw both these performances in a grander context the night before the SNL taping (about which more later), but what I saw on SNL when I watched it bleary-eyed on Sunday morning was a man trying to work through demons by creating something. Sure, 808s And Heartbreak is, despite the focus-grouping of its first singles, a statement taken almost-directly off the cuff, but isn't anger one of the stages of grief? What Kanye's doing here, as Eric Harvey puts it, "writing songs in the manner of conversation fragments and flustered, late-night voicemail messages"—you know, the type that I'm sure every one of you have left, and regretted. That he's crafting pop art out of the drunk dial is something that should be examined, and not "LOL"ed at right out.

Also, I find it kinda funny that quite a few of the people calling Kanye out aren't afraid to embrace other bands where technical prowess is trumped by "really feeling it, man"—the Vivian Girls, etc., etc. Is this something else that we can blame on the CSNoozY stylings of Fleet Foxes, or is there a troubling double standard going on here?

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:50 pm 
Godzilla
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Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that it's good.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:53 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Quote:
Kanye West On "Saturday Night Live": In Which Everyone On The Internet Becomes Simon Cowell For A Few Minutes

Kanye West was the musical guest on the holiday episode of Saturday Night Live, and his performance of "Love Lockdown" and "Heartless" resulted in catcalling from the usual suspects: "Disturbingly like a quiet man during bad karaoke"; "It sounded off... maybe just too much bragging about his sheer talent?"; "No surprise that Kanye West is the latest singer to sound like crap on SNL." (OK, at least that last bit recognizes that all the musical guests this year have had serious technical issues, but still.)



Kanye himself didn't seem all that distraught with his performances, posting them both on his blog shortly after they were bootlegged online. And why should he? Sure, the mixing of his voice was a little high in the grand scheme of things, but both performances were compelling, with Kanye seemingly becoming possessed by the tracks as he sang them. The struggle between his imperfect voice and the trying-its-damndest-to-fix-it Autotune was uncomfortable, but that was in many ways the point; hey, heartbreak ain't a pretty thing, even when you have the newest creature comforts (pills! fancy couches! beautiful women! luxury brands!) to "make it all better."

Perhaps it was because I saw both these performances in a grander context the night before the SNL taping (about which more later), but what I saw on SNL when I watched it bleary-eyed on Sunday morning was a man trying to work through demons by creating something. Sure, 808s And Heartbreak is, despite the focus-grouping of its first singles, a statement taken almost-directly off the cuff, but isn't anger one of the stages of grief? What Kanye's doing here, as Eric Harvey puts it, "writing songs in the manner of conversation fragments and flustered, late-night voicemail messages"—you know, the type that I'm sure every one of you have left, and regretted. That he's crafting pop art out of the drunk dial is something that should be examined, and not "LOL"ed at right out.

Also, I find it kinda funny that quite a few of the people calling Kanye out aren't afraid to embrace other bands where technical prowess is trumped by "really feeling it, man"—the Vivian Girls, etc., etc. Is this something else that we can blame on the CSNoozY stylings of Fleet Foxes, or is there a troubling double standard going on here?


that is some stupid shit

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:01 pm 
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DoctorRock wrote:
Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself that it's good.


No, I think it was great. I don't need convincing. But I do like to read a lot about music and like to share. That's why I created this site.

I can understand if people think that the effect it has on the voice sounds lame and it's not your thing. I totally understand that. However, what I can't seem to understand are people who are just against sort of the philosophy of using the autotune..

Clearly Kanye is using it as an effect and not to "correct his voice." If it's a style choice, why be so passionately against that as a style choice? Some bands who have state of the art studios still record things on 4 track machines and get a hissing sound on their recordings and keep it. It's a style choice. To me it's the same exact thing.

And the performance was emotional, especially the Love Lockdown chorus. I think it's easy to just knock the dude, but I like to look at it a little deeper than just the effect he is using on his vocals.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:25 pm 
Godzilla
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robertduffy wrote:
I think it's easy to just knock the dude, but I like to look at it a little deeper than just the effect he is using on his vocals.


I suspect that he was dumped by his girlfriend for being the complete douche nozzle that he is and that he probably deserved it.

I also suspect that he feels somewhat responsible for his mother's death from bad plastic surgery since he probably gave her the money to get it.

The only logical next step is to take a shit into a computer and have it processed into little glittery turdlets of agony.

Is that better?


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:19 pm 
King Ghidorah
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I don't care about the effect or "cheating" (hell, I love Cynic and they use all Vocoder vocals) or any of that. The songs were lame, and he has done so much better on earlier efforts, and his appearance on SNL was boring and lame compared to what he is normally capable of.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:29 pm 
Godzilla
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DoctorRock wrote:
I also give the thread merge a D-

I recommend a lockdown.


a love lockdown?

sorry


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:39 pm 
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thisoneholymedium wrote:
a love lockdown?


Yes, that's where I was going with it.

Here's the dress rehearsal performance. I especially enjoyed the emotion-filled lip-synced choruses and the part where he apologizes and promises that it will be better later for the real show.



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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:54 pm 
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1.doctor rock gonzo et al...i really don't have the energy for the whole rockist debate..cause i think the effects of anti-rockism sometimes let rock critics set up things on different slant the wrong way too...

but ""A rockist isn't just someone who loves rock 'n' roll, who goes on and on about Bruce Springsteen, who champions ragged-voiced singer-songwriters no one has ever heard of. A rockist is someone who reduces rock 'n' roll to a caricature, then uses that caricature as a weapon. Rockism means idolizing the authentic old legend (or underground hero) while mocking the latest pop star; lionizing punk while barely tolerating disco; loving the live show and hating the music video; extolling the growling performer while hating the lip-syncher. " By KELEFA SANNEH NYTimes October 31, 2004."

but really i like auto-tune so we are gonna go very far.
it makes shit sound like robots. futuristic and such
who is william holiday?

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/31/arts/ ... wanted=all


2-rollie-rappers been staying and copping gear forever....
and disrespecting woman who can't defend themselves.

as far as "all falls down"

"[Verse - Kanye West]
Man I promise, she's so self conscious
She has no idea what she's doing in college
That major that she majored in don't make no money
But she won't drop out, her parents will look at her funny
Now, tell me that ain't insecurrre
The concept of school seems so securrre
Sophmore three yearrrs aint picked a careerrr
She like fuck it, I'll just stay down herre and do hair
Cause that's enough money to buy her a few pairs of new Airs
Cause her baby daddy don't really care
She's so precious with the peer pressure
Couldn't afford a car so she named her daughter Alexus (a Lexus)
She had hair so long that it looked like weave
Then she cut it all off now she look like Eve
And she be dealing with some issues that you can't believe
Single black female addicted to retail and well

[Chorus - repeat 2x (w/ Kanye ad-libs)]

[Verse - Kanye West]
Man I promise, I'm so self conscious
That's why you always see me with at least one of my watches
Rollies and Pasha's done drove me crazy
I can't even pronounce nothing, pass that versace!
Then I spent 400 bucks on this
Just to be like nigga you ain't up on this!
And I can't even go to the grocery store
Without some ones thats clean and a shirt with a team
It seems we living the american dream
But the people highest up got the lowest self esteem
The prettiest people do the ugliest things
For the road to riches and diamond rings
We shine because they hate us, floss cause they degrade us
We trying to buy back our 40 acres
And for that paper, look how low we a'stoop
Even if you in a Benz, you still a nigga in a coop/coupe

[Chorus - repeat 2x (w/ Kanye ad-libs)]

[Verse - Kanye West]
I say fuck the police, thats how I treat em
We buy our way out of jail, but we can't buy freedom
We'll buy a lot of clothes when we don't really need em
Things we buy to cover up what's inside
Cause they make us hate ourself and love they wealth
That's why shortys hollering "where the ballas' at?"
Drug dealer buy Jordans, crackhead buy crack
And a white man get paid off of all of that
But I ain't even gon act holier than thou
Cause fuck it, I went to Jacob with 25 thou
Before I had a house and I'd do it again
Cause I wanna be on 106 and Park pushing a Benz
I wanna act ballerific like it's all terrific
I got a couple past due bills, I won't get specific
I got a problem with spending before I get it
We all self conscious I'm just the first to admit it"



. kanye was the first artist on a mainstream level to not draw a line in the sand.
where it's either "my fur game is at all time high" or "i'm sick of versace glasses" but explain this materialistic aspect of hip hop culture exists because people are compensating for something..

i remember a q-tip interview i read where he said that alot of nihilism in rap exist because people are getting shot..poverty all that stuff
but hip hop culture didn't allow vulnerability so even though cats are depressed....
the only way to channel it is in violence, and anger.

if you recall all the questions about minstrel culture
you know
are black artists are allowed to express themselves as individuals by corperations and white listeners?
then "all falls down" is actually a really important song.

if you don't like kanye i feel it. he can be annoying. and the pity party that he throws for himself on this record is kinda hard to stomach...like i mean if you
want a sports car, and a kid with a report card you could prolly have them both..

but i really like the album. 1.cause i think it sounds good. 2.its mainstream manifestation of the fact that radiohead and t-pain get alot of burn within the black music community...


but...i feel you doug

jap city is hilarious

http://nerdwithswag.com/negroes-with-purses-video/

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:21 pm 
Godzilla
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I'm not here to debate either and I can't fucking stand Bruce Springsteen. Way to stereotype!

All I said was that I think he used autotune because he can't sing. He's a hell of a producer and a great lyricist and I had higher expectations. I'm not sure how that makes me a "rockist".


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:25 pm 
Mechagodzilla

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DoctorRock wrote:
I'm not here to debate either and I can't fucking stand Bruce Springsteen. Way to stereotype!

All I said was that I think he used autotune because he can't sing. He's a hell of a producer and a great lyricist and I had higher expectations. I'm not sure how that makes me a "rockist".


ok..bad. i think use of autotune showed he was a producer reaching a pop futuristic
sound. and i think as..umm..pitchfork(sorry) pointed out. the difference between having a rapper sing verses say john legend is the character they play.
and the pov of a rapper vs. an r+b singer.

so someone who can't sing may bring something to the table that your average r+b singer wouldn't

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:33 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Wesley Flexner wrote:

wes,
does mags have any of this on vinyl :?:
i'm trying to put a HATE dj set together & this shit is waaaaay harder than skrewdriver

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:40 pm 
Mechagodzilla

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christopher lasch wrote:
Wesley Flexner wrote:

wes,
does mags have any of this on vinyl :?:
i'm trying to put a HATE dj set together & this shit is waaaaay harder than skrewdriver



naw...the secre gay cabal conspiracy has kept jap city without a record deal..

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:47 pm 
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this one is actually better

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