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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:03 pm 
Godzilla
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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:12 pm 
Godzilla
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so i've been listening this album on and off all day-kinda hard to make it through imo

love lockdown is a pretty cool track but it's pretty much an album full of love lockdown only not as good

i think he should have released this for free a la the slip

the autotune is so painful


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:51 am 
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What is this shit? I listened three times through to give it a real sporting chance, but no go. You could take the worst tracks off the first three records (not including skits) and it would probably be a better listen than this. Love Lockdown and Paranoid both rule, but beyond that, it is all meandering and droning synths with a bunch of bitching about a girl and how fame is not all its cracked up to be. Fascinating in a car wreck sort of way, rubberneck and move on. Paranoid really does rule though.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:18 pm 
Godzilla
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robertduffy wrote:
I dunno, but you mentioned that maybe you just didnt get it and now cant seem to escape this thread....!


You got me there. Also, that damn song keeps playing over and over in my head.

I get it. This is emo, Kanye style.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:03 pm 
Mechagodzilla

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I'm so glad I stopped giving this idiot any seconds of my time. Kanye blows.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye West, 808s and Heartbreaks
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:56 pm 
Godzilla
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kanye west's party dream


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 Post subject: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:39 am 
King Ghidorah
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Is is just me or does the inventor of Auto Tune need to be held accountable for his crimes against humanity!

1 word review.

Sucked

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:10 pm 
Godzilla
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Both performances were super-weak. No amount of autotune could have saved them.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:28 pm 
Mechagodzilla

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2) Hating on Auto-Tune- Critics need to stop bitching. It’s like getting mad at a guitar player for using a wha-wha pedal. For a rappers, the voice is the instrument of choice. They should be able to alter their voice however they want. What else do you expect them to do, get on the piano and hammer out a solo? It’s rapping. This is not music theory 101.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:58 pm 
Godzilla

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ffUOTiS2Ao

Singing to a backing track must be so difficult.

Check :39 in and then about :44 seconds in.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:38 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Wesley Flexner wrote:
2) Hating on Auto-Tune- Critics need to stop bitching. It’s like getting mad at a guitar player for using a wha-wha pedal. For a rappers, the voice is the instrument of choice. They should be able to alter their voice however they want. What else do you expect them to do, get on the piano and hammer out a solo? It’s rapping. This is not music theory 101.



Right.

But anyone in any genre should be able to manipulate their vocals however they want. It's a fucking recording. Putting reverb, echo, distortion etc. is altering the original vocals. And almost every band uses those three. So, are you going to give "altering" different levels and decide which level is too far? Does auto-tune go into level 6 (one level too far) of offending your principles?

This is why these programs were created...to give recording artists a greater spectrum of sound. God fucking forbid someone should utilize one of them.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:40 pm 
King Ghidorah
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1. tom morello sucks
2. "love lockdown" is a tight song
3. "hairbraider" is a tight song
4. "chopped and screwed" is a tight song
5. "believe" was cher's best song since "gypsies, tramps and thieves"

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:19 pm 
Mechagodzilla

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Kanye needs to return to the studio and keep to the beats.

That shit is embarrassing for humanity.

Using too much auto-tune IS like using too much wah-wah. Which explains why it is inexplicably bad, a crutch for lacking actual creativity and originality. If you can't sing, just don't sing at all, or do it sparingly. If you can't play an original slick guitar lead, don't use the wah-wah, play two chords and record it on a four track.

Don't even get me started on all the gender-role flipping, misogynist bullshit he's peddling to people, who are sadly eating it up. Why did people completely stop thinking about the music they listen to?


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:24 am 
King Ghidorah
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Rollie wrote:
Kanye needs to return to the studio and keep to the beats.

That shit is embarrassing for humanity.

Using too much auto-tune IS like using too much wah-wah. Which explains why it is inexplicably bad, a crutch for lacking actual creativity and originality. If you can't sing, just don't sing at all, or do it sparingly. If you can't play an original slick guitar lead, don't use the wah-wah, play two chords and record it on a four track.

Don't even get me started on all the gender-role flipping, misogynist bullshit he's peddling to people, who are sadly eating it up. Why did people completely stop thinking about the music they listen to?


I think you might need to examine all the things that are more embarassing for humanity than Kanye West's new album.

"If you can't sing, just don't sing at all"??? really now? Do you really want to get into the specifics of what it means to Sing or Not to Sing? If you're attemping to place any sort of standard on Good singing and Bad singing please let me know what that standard is based upon. I'm really all ears. People throw around superlatives on this board like they're uninspired band names.

And "gender-role flipping, misogynist bullshit"? What?! If you're drunk, dude, that's cool. I've said dumber things. Maybe I'm missing your point. I probably am. So I won't launch into a tirade until you explain yourself more. Maybe you should throw the misogynist label on several hundred other groups who deserve it much more than Kanye.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:54 am 
King Ghidorah
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Wesley Flexner wrote:
2) Hating on Auto-Tune- Critics need to stop bitching. It’s like getting mad at a guitar player for using a wha-wha pedal. For a rappers, the voice is the instrument of choice. They should be able to alter their voice however they want. What else do you expect them to do, get on the piano and hammer out a solo? It’s rapping. This is not music theory 101.


The best part is when people don't see how cheesy it is. Revisit it in 10 yrs. when you have double laced Reeboks and a mullet.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:02 am 
Godzilla
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Autotune as an instrument is OK by me, but as soon as people started calling Kanye a crooner, I had to be critical of his actual ability to do so. No amount of any crutch of any kind would have saved the SNL performance.

That SNL performance was weak. I watched Love Lockdown twice because I couldn't believe how bad it was. This guy is a superstar and he needs to perform that way. In the control room as a producer, he's a master of his craft. He wouldn't half-ass that like he's half-assing his performances lately. I give it a D -


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:47 am 
Mechagodzilla

Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 6:04 pm
Posts: 1872
Tristannus wrote:
Rollie wrote:
Kanye needs to return to the studio and keep to the beats.

That shit is embarrassing for humanity.

Using too much auto-tune IS like using too much wah-wah. Which explains why it is inexplicably bad, a crutch for lacking actual creativity and originality. If you can't sing, just don't sing at all, or do it sparingly. If you can't play an original slick guitar lead, don't use the wah-wah, play two chords and record it on a four track.

Don't even get me started on all the gender-role flipping, misogynist bullshit he's peddling to people, who are sadly eating it up. Why did people completely stop thinking about the music they listen to?


I think you might need to examine all the things that are more embarassing for humanity than Kanye West's new album.

"If you can't sing, just don't sing at all"??? really now? Do you really want to get into the specifics of what it means to Sing or Not to Sing? If you're attemping to place any sort of standard on Good singing and Bad singing please let me know what that standard is based upon. I'm really all ears. People throw around superlatives on this board like they're uninspired band names.

And "gender-role flipping, misogynist bullshit"? What?! If you're drunk, dude, that's cool. I've said dumber things. Maybe I'm missing your point. I probably am. So I won't launch into a tirade until you explain yourself more. Maybe you should throw the misogynist label on several hundred other groups who deserve it much more than Kanye.


Look, I'm the last person who's going to police performers into the proper way of singing, whether they're "in tune" or not, proper pitch, etc. Those standards have never mattered to me. When I say somebody can't sing well, what I mean is they can't sing in an interesting manner. Did you think the way he sang on SNL was interesting? Did it make you think, or at least make you move? Really...

I was a big fan of Kanye circa his first two records. I defended his flow when I lot of people were saying he couldn't rap, shouldn't be doing it, etc. I thought what he had to say was against the grain, and that he was touching upon issue that needed pushed in modern Rap/RnB/Pop music in general. It was good shit, fun to listen to, and it made you think. You can go back to the first song on his first album for a perfect example, "We Don't Care".

The gender-role flipping comment is pretty self-explanatory. Kanye has painted himself as a victim on almost every track on this album, at least the ones I've heard. I just looked at the lyrics from the album, and really, every song is about how he has been punished by this woman. Then there's the lines about how there's no Gucci that could ever heal his wounds or whatever. This is gender-role flipping, for a man to want to go shopping to cheer him up. It's like Kanye he's started a new movement (over these last two records) that is his version of feminism, I guess you could call it masculinism.

Here's a piece from "Heartless".

Quote:
In the night, I hear them talk the coldest story ever told
Somewhere far along this road, he lost his soul
To a woman so heartless [echoes 3X]
How could you be so heartless [echoes 3X]
Oh, how could you be so heartless?

[Verse 1]
How could you be so cold as the winter wind when it breeze yo
Just remember that you talking to me yo
You need to watch the way you talking to me yo
I mean after all the things that we been through
I mean after all the things we got into
Ayo, I know there are some things that you ain't told me
Ayo, I did some things but that's the old me
And now you wanna get me back and you gonna show me
So you walk around like you don't know me
You got a new friend, well I got homies
But in the end it's still so lonely

[Chorus]

[Verse 2]
How could you be so Dr. Evil?
You bringing out a side of me that I don't know
I decided we weren't gonna speak so
Why we up 3 A.M. on the phone?
Why though she be so mad at me for?
Homie I don't know she's hot and cold
I won't stop wont mess my groove up
Cause I already know how this thing go
You run and tell your friends that you're leaving me
They say that they don't see what you see in me
You wait a couple months then you gonna see
You'll never find nobody better than me


I don't know, I could go into it more and write a nice essay about it, but I've noticed over the last few years how Kanye has set an example for young me to spend clothes on fancy things (like women have historically in the past in Pop culture), cry a river when he is wronged, and then not even give this woman a chance to fire back, which is a little unfair. So she is obviously going to be considered a wicked woman by all of his listeners. But then he'll turn around and sing about this momma and everything's okay.

My question is, and I'd like to know since I haven't heard all this album, is does Kanye find himself at fault at all for his heartbreak?

I know this is a little too serious for some on a topic that people don't want to be taken seriously, but Kanye's words are heard by a lot of people, and they take him seriously. Now I know when it comes down to it, his songs are fun to dance to, to drive around to, his beats still rule, etc., and that for much of the time we can't just ignore the lyrics. But I just wanted to call the guy out for shit that's been bugging me for a while now. Kanye has the biggest arena in Pop music and this is what he gives us?


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:48 am 
Godzilla
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my friend was there and said it was way better live, but that the mini-concert he did after the show was WAY better than the two during...

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:18 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Tristannus wrote:
Wesley Flexner wrote:
2) Hating on Auto-Tune- Critics need to stop bitching. It’s like getting mad at a guitar player for using a wha-wha pedal. For a rappers, the voice is the instrument of choice. They should be able to alter their voice however they want. What else do you expect them to do, get on the piano and hammer out a solo? It’s rapping. This is not music theory 101.



Right.

But anyone in any genre should be able to manipulate their vocals however they want. It's a fucking recording. Putting reverb, echo, distortion etc. is altering the original vocals. And almost every band uses those three. So, are you going to give "altering" different levels and decide which level is too far? Does auto-tune go into level 6 (one level too far) of offending your principles?

This is why these programs were created...to give recording artists a greater spectrum of sound. God fucking forbid someone should utilize one of them.


Auto Tune was created for untalented hacks when specifically used to make the untalented untuned singer sound "Autotuned" in a live situation. Thats why my respect for a lot of these acts doesnt exist. Remember Milli Vanilli?...

He's a good rapper and producer but this performance fell below the level of even a highschool talent show.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:46 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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anyone who equates auto-tune with a wha pedal doesn't know what the fuck is up.

Auto tune is for people who can't sing in tune. Now if someone didn't know how to tune their guitar, that would be another story.

auto tune might be a "tool" but its a tool for people lacking real talent.

Do you think Billie Holiday would need an auto tune.

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:46 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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what autotune was created for and what it is used for ---- who cares, right?

i mean i like a lot of albums and songs that use found sounds or unique things as instruments and i'm never OMFG WHY DID HE USE A COWBELL FOR MUSIC WHEN IT SHOULD BE AROUND A COW'S NECK!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:55 pm 
Godzilla
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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:12 pm 
Mechagodzilla

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I'm a fan of cleverly-used autotune here and there. When T-Pain came out on all those tracks a few years back I was all about it.

I've loved ZAPP since I was a kid, and Troutman used the talkbox on every song. That didn't bother me. So it's not the presence of the autotune that bothers me, it's the way he uses it.

But I've wasted too much time already ranting against the new Kanye. I'm not a fan, not of the album as a whole (couple of the tracks sound pretty "hot") and not of his message. A lot of people are, and that's fine. I just really hope we aren't lowering our standards when it comes to the music we consume. Just because he is trying something different does not mean it is good. Just because he's not supposed to use autotune on every track (that's for T-Pain) doesn't make it worthy.

If you think it is good music, interesting music, that is one thing. But if it is good or interesting only in context of all the other crap that's out there, or preconceived notions, then that does not make it good.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:31 pm 
King Ghidorah
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Wait, what? He was using auto tune on that? It must have been malfunctioning or not programmed correctly because he was still out of tune as fuck on those songs.

But I really don't care about that, because even when sung well, the songs still were crap. He can do so much better than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Kanye on SNL
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:43 pm 
King Ghidorah
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robertduffy wrote:
what autotune was created for and what it is used for ---- who cares, right?

i mean i like a lot of albums and songs that use found sounds or unique things as instruments and i'm never OMFG WHY DID HE USE A COWBELL FOR MUSIC WHEN IT SHOULD BE AROUND A COW'S NECK!!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


I guess that would be me. I care. You apparently do as well or you wouldnt chime in here.

If it hasnt already been done, someone should create a program that just auto generates songs.

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