i think for the east coast writers that have had success, there is certain understanding of the layers of curruption in their cities, and trying to create a balance of the d'evils on their city
and still holding true to what they value...

i remembering reading this thing by espo how he really liked that people were selling bootleg patriotic shirts on the corners in new york city right after 9/11

he felt like at that point that was the true spirit of the city..
somewhat exploitive but still having groups of people bonded over something.

not only does that not address anything i'm asking about, you of all people have to realize how different not only the mindsets, but the realities of new york city, and columbus, ohio truly are . . .

i think i speak for all the anti camp when i say "which is what?"

b/c they certainly don't value the time wasted on repairing their creations.

quoting myself is a bit gauche, but what the hell



tj just said it again. this ain't nyc, it's OHIO

man. poor cookie. you actually had a pretty valid argument at the beginning of this thread, but you lost. you've lost. you've taken to calling names and cussing all over the place. it's bad form. that colostomy bag joke was pretty funny, until you explained the punchline. anyway, the first couple of 'cookie' tags are up. they look pretty solid. i used that 'philly wicked' just for you.

i like the graffiti that has a message, an idea, a position or an innate ability to conjure a response from the viewer. i've got books collecting some of the better stencil graffiti over the years, and i've always been a fan of what shepard farey was originally doing (with his original "has a posse" stickers), and even mark gunderson's "eyes" stickers that covered high street from morse rd. to the south side back in the late 80s/early 90s. i loved going to other cities to see a show, and see a set of mark's eyes looking back at e from a telephone pole. hell, i remember some band on the first sub-pop video comp had one of his eyes stickers on their guitar, and that was about as cool as somebody's "tag" (for that's what it was) was ever gonna get. on an instrument in a different genre of music, half a continent away, and then in the national video for that band. spreading your name in lands far from home, even in the 70's subway car style, is an interesting use of graffiti (or sticker tags) and always puts me in the mind of the name of an early jg thirwell record "foetus art terrorism"

i think a lot of the stencil and sticker graf is truly "art terrorism" in some of the best ways possible. i just simply think that there's nothing "art" about marker tagging everything in your sight, feeling entitled to do it, and fuck those who tell you that you can't

but back to my point, if you've never checked it out, i HIGHLY recommend this book:


if you haven't seen it, find a friend with it and glace thru it sometime. it's a gas, and really inspiring. it makes you want to create art that day. and it makes a cool present when you don't know what to give someone.

there aren't any columbus graffiti writers banking..

mike carney has a decent job @ abercrombie and does good free lancing..

but he isn't and never was graffiti writer..

so there aren't any successful graffiti writers in the art world in columbus....

really i don't know very many rich fine artists that live in columbus period.

actually, i forgot that the first post was an insult. scratch all that about your 'pretty valid argument.' and thanks to wes for posting the Upski. i haven't read any of his stuff for a long time.

well..tj i think stencil graffiti in general has greater possibilty of have a utilitatarian, pop and political use.

hate to use a hip hop analogy...
but most people like story raps better than battle raps..
because the battle raps don't include universal human elements.

however a good battle rap still commands attention no matter how selfish and fruitless they maybe..

tagging would be the battle rap.
and an interior of battle rap can communicate things..
regional styles and trends

graffiti as graffiti that we are talking about...the "tags" is something a segment of the population enjoy, and has its audience...
history,aesthetic rules and culture..
and it does alienate people that are victims of something that in many cases is pure narcissism.

part of the craft "graffiti that started in philly and new york in the mid 70's"is the lack of stencil and utilization of said tool..

on a different note

if someone uses a stencil on something, they are still vandalizing something that doesn't belong to them?

(i know you mentioned telephone poll, and not business)
its still illegal and vandalism.

i just think its more sympathetic because at least it has a direct message.

or a quicker ability to speak in literal images.


and shepard fairey is making bank..
he put posters up small businesses.
i look at him as the mike jones of graffiti..

he self-promoted and used his knowledge of his culture to prosper.

he said his name so much, people started paying him to obey it.

but i feel you if your saying what he does is more interesting to general public
it has a subversive slant.

which makes the rebellion targeted, political, and less nihilist.

thanks for recommending the book, and being open minded enough to discuss this.

i was happy to find that online cause it set parameters that in retrospect defined 10 years of my life.

upski moved on to start the no more prisions movement, and is the leader of the league of pissed off voters.

Republicans,
the idea of private property is a huge myth.
ask the nerd that shot the pretty cheerleader in worthington if u don't believe me.

but battle rapping doesn't damage other people's property.



my love or hate for a piece isn't rooted in the medium. mural or sticker. it IS often rooted in the locale. i said pages earler, if you're gonna do graffiti, put it on public places, public buildings, freeway walls, overpasses and the like; where you've paid taxes to erect them, and you'll pay taxes that will repair them. same way i felt about skating in the 80's . . . don't fuck with people's private shit.



as i said, graf with a message, graf with a point, IS important in my eyes. it's the one and only voice-amplifier that many folks have access to. it can be a social critique, or the voice of a revolution.

tagging the mirrors on the dance floor of skully's is NOT the same thing. it's simply macho-bullshit-chest-pounding-bravado. "look at me, i'm a rebel, a badass, and i'm part of something big and relevant!"

and using one to justify the other just never comes off as "legit"

but they don't want you to look at them. they want to run away when they're done.

they may play badass on tv( or in their cubicle at abercrombie ), but that's about the end of it.

p.s.
hey mike, nothing says counter culture like working for the most homogenized direct to white teens marketing clothing company of all time. but, i'll bet that they're 401k match is pretty sweet.

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