PBJ in Pittsburg

Akron PBJ. its not mike carney

PBJ permission wall in Franklinton

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Cleveland PBJ

at what point did the arguemnt leave "why are fools writing initials on people's businesses in marker and etch pens?" and become "look at our portfolio"

as stated before, murals on an underpass and etched glass on a front door are two totally seperate ends of the scene. this debate was started to be about, and my only concern is about, the latter.

posting pictures of beautiful murals doesn't detract from the fact that the debate is over marker-tags and their adverse effects on the small business owner.

what about "fucking with the mom&pop shop's bottom line" is considered art?

well its art because their is actually refined development to the columbus handstyle

believe it or not pbj finished first in an international graffiti competition "handstyle" battle section.

people spend years developing their handstyles..

now does that make it right is a different question..

i don't think anyone can say it makes it morally right to write on your business..

i feel like bart simpson "tagging" the chalkboard here, but i guess i'll keep repeating it:
writing your initials is not art.

Well, it is morally wrong to write on someones business without thier permission. End of story.

However,

I really like that PBJ permission wall in Franklinton.

Franklinton is also known as The Bottoms. Franklinton is where I grew up.

I like the mural there. Its gorgeous. That neighborhood needs gorgeousness, because its destitute.

And no one got pissed off by it.

and a mural on a wall is VERY different from carving your initials in a bar's bathroom mirror.

people spend hours developing their handstyle..
there are lineages and regional styles that are passed down..

columbus is known to have really good handstyles..

it stems from someone moving here in the early 90's from los angles and kicking down styles which were developed because core foundation of graffiti is your tag..

the rule is..if you can't rock a good tag you should'nt be painting graffiti..

i understand this has no value for you..

You know what, me too!


I think I will start a gang!

Exactly TJ.

The PBJ mural, done with permission on a wall in a poor neighborhood (my neighborhood), is really awesome.

The initials carved in your bar bathroom, and your shop getting tagged.....juvenile and stupid.

There it is.

more cleveland pbj

thats why i posted it...

actually new york graffiti works like this...


in poored areas like the bronx there tends to be more murals..
in rich areas and arts district there tends to be more etching, and scribing cause areas with money don't want graffiti around..

so it morphs.

Those are nice photos. They are very artistic and full of excellent applied technique. The artists are masters of their media.

I also noticed none of those sweet pieces of art weren't etched on the front door glass of any local shops.

Makes sense.

Getting city permission to go into a poor neighborhood and beautify a wall with a Graff mural is A OK in my book. it beautifies the neighborhood, and maybe some poor kid will see it and get inspired and go into art instead of a gang.

Now, vandalising someones business in the Short North or Vic Village or Clintonville...

Thats illegal and dumb.

So, keep it legal and make a drab area more pretty and inspiring.. Then everyone is happy.

now you're just going for dismissive bullshit, and that's what i never wanted between us in this, wes. i DO think that graf is an art. i'm kinda getting tired of repeating that point. and i DO see the need to develop basic talents into real skills, in this, or music, or ANY artform. but, as suggested before, why not confine your learning time to YOUR OWN SHIT! tag your bedrooms all day long. tag everything you own, cover every inch of your own property all day long. but even something as simple as a white-markered 'PBJ" on a dumpster is vandalism, and it is a crime, far more than it is art. and that crime is also someone else's now-ruined property. that that property will need to be repaired, almost always at the victim's expense.

you've cited many graf artists who've gone on to gallery life after they "legitimize" . . . tell me, any of those cats, even one of 'em, ever try to take the new-found 6-digit salary that their vandalism has led to, and try to use some of that money to make amends for the costs that small business owners have had to shell out to pay for the tagger's (now successful artist's) "schooling?"

has there ever been an artist who came from the graf scene who ever gave back to the community they damaged for so long? a fund to remove tags from businesses that don't want them? a foundation in their hometown set up to help repair damages done by taggers? or, once they get the money that come with gallery success, is it just a "i got mine, you get yours" trip, where the people they stepped on and hurt financially while developing their handstyle just lose out? because i've never heard of such a thing . . .

i get you are being honest and critical in your reasoning.

i meant...this has no value to you..as in
basically saying...i understand you aren't looking for who is the most talented at ruining your door.

as far as successful graffiti artists giving back..

espo did a bunch of stuff for inner city art programs.
i think thats the route they usually take..

most graffiti writers that have artististic success are pretty familar with postmodernism,
gentrification, and radical political thought..

so usually they have somewhat of a disdain for the gallaries and businesses in areas like williamsburg, soho, and the east village..

they are on some real anarchist....graffiti causes no structural damages, as long as i don't write on homes and cars..i am straight.

and again i am not saying thats morally right..

it kinda exists in a nihilist situational ethics fog.

and it's value is ever decreasing as you continue to avoid a shit load of direct questions. so really, you don't seem capable of understanding anything in these pages that has contradicted what you consider part of the culture.

i think i answered this..

when i said,,

there is no way i can say its morally right.

there is no fog. there is only denial.

morally and legally, it IS a crime. and not a victimless one.

let's just hope and pray that involves teaching the youth proper handstyle.

i don't think they teach them handstyles...

they teach them art techniques in painting murals so the kids can learn to develop their self-esteem in a group setting and see the value in developing artistic talents.

they don't do graffiti training.

that would happen when a disfunctional youth started wondering off into graffiti on his own.

so the answer then is "no, they don't give a shit about the people that they hurt on the way to becoming rich off legitimizing a crime"

that truly sucks.

hey, i fucked up a bunch of other people's shit, and now i'm making "mad bank" because of that, while others are struggling to repair the damages i've done. . . . eh, fuck 'em. they deserved it, for trying to live out the american dream (you know, the original one, the one about owning your own business)



youknow, until they can HANG in the galleries. then all bets are off, and let's make some cash!!!

the only sense it makes is: when a neighborhood actually does something to curb the crimes you're committing, you go out and find new ways to commit worse crimes . . . that's fucking genius.