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 Post subject: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:11 am 
Godzilla

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:37 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: The Gettin' Place
Public said no in 1997 and that answer should still stand.

On thin ice (Could the Jackets leave town?)
Friday, May 29, 2009 3:11 AM
By Jim Siegel, Aaron Portzline and Bill Bush
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

Even though the Blue Jackets made the playoffs this year, the club still lost at least $10 million, team officials say.
How it would hit your wallet

The proposed "sin" taxes would increase the cost of a . . .
12-pack of beer -- 28 cents
Fifth of liquor -- 60 cents
Pack of cigarettes -- 4.5 cents
Bottle of wine -- 6.35 cents

After losing $80 million in the past seven years, Columbus Blue Jackets owners are hoping that selling Nationwide Arena to the county could stave off serious discussions about moving the team to another city.

The team has floated a proposal to local, state and Nationwide Insurance officials that would allow Franklin County commissioners to impose tax increases on beer, wine, liquor and cigarettes to fund the purchase of the 18,000-seat arena. The hope was to stick the plan in the upcoming two-year state budget, but that's not going to happen, at least in the near-term, a Senate GOP spokeswoman said.

Blue Jackets President Mike Priest said the club made a modest profit in its first two seasons, but in the past seven years lost $80 million, including more than $10 million this past year, despite the team making the playoffs for the first time.

Asked if failure to approve the plan would force the team to leave Columbus, Priest said:

"The reason we're being proactive and working and talking is to find a solution so that we don't have to go down that road or have those types of discussions. The whole purpose of this is to avoid that. Other teams have been through this and have found solutions."

Priest said he met with National Hockey League Commissioner Gary Bettman and Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly more than a year ago and presented the team's business plan, wondering how, despite decent ticket sales and corporate sponsorships, the team was still losing so much money. The league's response: The team isn't making as much money off the arena as other clubs.

Nationwide owns the 9-year-old building, so it doesn't pay naming rights. Plus, Priest said, the facility makes very little on parking, and 15 of the private luxury suites were sold in advance to help fund construction.

"Early on the club was subsidizing its losses on the building-operation side. It's not happening anymore," Priest said. "We're losing money, and it's snowballing."

Turning over the arena to the county would allow the Blue Jackets to rework their lease agreement. Brian Ellis, president of Nationwide Realty Investors, said the company is allowing the team to defer its rent payment for the 2008-09 season.

"Without a broader solution, I don't think anything we can do would be sufficient to fix the problem," Ellis said. "There's no way that just an adjustment to the lease, as it's currently configured, would be sufficient to maintain the long-term viability of the Blue Jackets."

The new plan, modeled after a tax plan used to build a baseball stadium and arena in Cleveland, comes 12 years after Franklin County voters rejected a temporary tax increase to pay for a new Downtown arena.

Sen. Jim Hughes, R-Columbus, said Matthew Kallner, a lobbyist for Worthington Industries -- whose CEO, John P. McConnell, also owns a majority stake in the Blue Jackets -- pitched the idea to him but has not provided any written language.

"I need to see something in black and white," Hughes said. "If this is going from a private to a public enterprise, what happens to funding for Columbus Public Schools?"

Nationwide Arena has a 99 percent property-tax abatement, but it provides at least $1 million a year to the school district from a surcharge on ticket sales and a portion of arena employees' city income tax.

If Franklin County became the arena's owner, it would be responsible for continuing to pay the Columbus district, according to Martin Hughes, a lawyer who represented the schools in a dispute over Nationwide's property value.

"It would appear to me that they have a deal with the schools," Hughes said. "This contract said that these revenues will be shared."

The Dispatch Printing Company owns 10 percent of the Blue Jackets, and Capitol Square Ltd., a subsidiary of The Dispatch Printing Company, owns 10 percent of the arena.

Under the plan currently under consideration, Nationwide would use whatever profits it gains from selling the arena to purchase a minority ownership of the team.

Ellis said Nationwide has not formally committed to the plan, but added, "We are in a position to be supportive of the proposal. Ultimately, we have a long way to go from a public-sector standpoint in terms of making sure that we're going to get the necessary support."

Blue Jackets representatives have approached top county officials with the proposal, but the commissioners have not taken a position on it, said Commissioner Paula Brooks.

The plan has drawn fire from Anheuser-Busch, which doesn't like the proposed tax hike on beer. Company President Dave Peacock met separately yesterday with Gov. Ted Strickland, the Senate president and House speaker to express opposition.

It also faces opposition from the Ohio Wholesale Beer & Wine Association, which has beaten back alcohol-tax increases before.

"At this point, there has been a lot of talk," said Maggie Ostrowski, spokeswoman for Senate President Bill M. Harris, R-Ashland. "He's hearing from a lot of different people about it. We're still listening to both sides of it."

When the Senate's budget bill is rolled out today, it will not include the arena provision, Ostrowski said.

Blue Jackets officials need the legislature to take action because last year lawmakers rescinded the law that allowed counties to institute taxes on alcohol and cigarettes to finance major-league sports facilities.

"There is no standing authority for any county to enact such taxes," said John Kohlstrand, spokesman for the Ohio Department of Taxation.

The plan would allow Franklin County commissioners to raise taxes by 28 cents on a 12-pack of beer, 6.4 cents on a bottle on wine, 60 cents on a fifth for spirits and 4.5 cents per pack of cigarettes. Either the county or the Convention Facility Authority could use the proceeds to purchase the arena, which would still be named Nationwide Arena, but the company would pay for naming rights.

In May 1997, Franklin County voters rejected by 56 to 44 percent a three-year, 0.5 percent sales tax to publicly fund a new arena. Nationwide eventually built the facility with private money.

"Back then, you were asking people to make an investment on something you couldn't touch and feel," Priest said. "But now you can see what this means to the public."

Dennis Knepley, who was part of an anti-tax group that opposed the arena in 1997, said last night: "It's another political scam, and we'll stop them again."

Priest stressed that the "sin" tax plan isn't the only option, but he also said, "We don't know of any other source of funds."


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:39 am 
Mechagodzilla
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bnb614 wrote:
Public said no in 1997 and that answer should still stand.


unless it goes back on the ballot and passes. also, the original referendum was held before columbus was even granted an nhl franchise. in the 12 years since, the city has really embraced hockey.

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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:03 am 
King Ghidorah

Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:47 pm
Posts: 537
Location: all up in ya
I do NOT drink to support some cr@ppy team in a third tier sport. I drink to get back at my stupid brain and liver. Bring back the Chill.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:35 am 
Godzilla
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Dear Rich People,

Are there any additional failures you'd like to pawn off? Just thinking maybe we could get it all out of the way at once.

I welcome the opportunity to serve you.

Sincerely,
JB


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:41 am 
Mechagodzilla
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Location: mustee bunkerz
Jawbreaker wrote:
Dear Rich People,

Are there any additional failures you'd like to pawn off? Just thinking maybe we could get it all out of the way at once.

I welcome the opportunity to serve you.

Sincerely,
JB



yeah, um, this whole "democracy" thing isn't really working out like we'd hoped. i'm glad you guys have been along for the ride during the transitional period, but i think we're just going to go ahead and declare this an official oligarchy now.

please keep giving us your money.

sincerely,
your $uperior$

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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 11:43 am 
King Ghidorah
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Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:20 am
Posts: 607
pity we're now far too apathetic and lazy for revolution.

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fuck you, precious.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 12:18 pm 
Godzilla
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2003 10:08 am
Posts: 7907
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Jawbreaker wrote:
Dear Rich People,

Are there any additional failures you'd like to pawn off? Just thinking maybe we could get it all out of the way at once.

I welcome the opportunity to serve you.

Sincerely,
JB

why not just PM bnb and ask him?

_________________
"The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other... involves orcs."
- Kung Fu Monkey


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 5:01 pm 
Godzilla

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:37 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: The Gettin' Place
Jawbreaker wrote:
Dear Rich People,
Are there any additional failures you'd like to pawn off? Just thinking maybe we could get it all out of the way at once.
I welcome the opportunity to serve you.
Sincerely,
JB


How do you determine it to be a failure? There was a study recently that said that since 2000, the arena district has pumped $2 Billion into the local economy. Would we be better off with still having a dilapidated old prison providing no jobs or tax revenue?

If the Blue Jackets left town, the Arena District would never recover and lots of people would lose jobs. The city and city schools would lose tons of revenue. But it will all be worth it so we can stick it to "the rich?" That doesn't seem to make much sense.

Also, from my understanding, Nationwide would still take a huge loss on the sale.

I am not necessarily for a tax increase, but I will be willing to listen to all the proposals they have.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:20 am 
King Ghidorah
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Posts: 598
Location: columbus, ohio
bnb614 wrote:
If the Blue Jackets left town, the Arena District would never recover and lots of people would lose jobs. The city and city schools would lose tons of revenue.


interested in backing this up somehow?

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Children---Jesus is right beside you!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:31 am 
Godzilla

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:37 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: The Gettin' Place
It is my opinion.

The Blue Jackets bring about 600,000 people a year into the Arena District for home games. People who pay to park, go to bars, go to restaurants, etc., and spend $$$. Those people won't drive down there just for the fun of it if suddenly there are no Blue Jackets games. That is a lot of revenue to lose for a lot of small businesses.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:03 pm 
Godzilla
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2003 10:08 am
Posts: 7907
Location: Brooklyn, NY
bnb614 wrote:
It is my opinion.

The Blue Jackets bring about 600,000 people a year into the Arena District for home games. People who pay to park, go to bars, go to restaurants, etc., and spend $$$. Those people won't drive down there just for the fun of it if suddenly there are no Blue Jackets games. That is a lot of revenue to lose for a lot of small businesses.

They do bring in a lot of money, but in theory something else could also I suppose.

Are the Blue Jackets too big to fail?

_________________
"The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other... involves orcs."
- Kung Fu Monkey


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:15 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:26 pm
Posts: 7648
Location: Columbus
sam craighead wrote:
bnb614 wrote:
If the Blue Jackets left town, the Arena District would never recover and lots of people would lose jobs. The city and city schools would lose tons of revenue.


interested in backing this up somehow?


There was an article in the Dispatch detailing the economic impact of the Arena District development in April. It's no longer available on line, but summary is below. It's worth noting the Dispatch may not be the most impartial source when it comes to this though, as they've got $$$ in the team.

Quote:
Publish Date: April 23, 2009
Paper: Columbus Dispatch, The (OH)
Page: 08A

The Columbus Blue Jackets and Nationwide Arena are more than the centerpieces of the Arena District.

The NHL team and the venue together have been responsible for directly and indirectly generating almost $2.5 billion for the central Ohio economy in the past decade, according to studies released yesterday.

The $45,000 studies -- of the team and arena and of the Arena District as a whole -- were conducted by the John Glenn School of Public Affairs at Ohio State University. They were

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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:25 pm 
Godzilla
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:10 pm
Posts: 6351
The entertaining part of this thread is BNB promoting Keynesian "economic stimulus" and Unpossibles (correctly, without even realizing it) using Bastiatian reasoning to question it.

:think:


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 2:46 pm 
Godzilla
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Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2003 10:08 am
Posts: 7907
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Jawbreaker wrote:
The entertaining part of this thread is BNB promoting Keynesian "economic stimulus" and Unpossibles (correctly, without even realizing it) using Bastiatian reasoning to question it.

:think:

I know! I almost made a half-joke about him supporting Socialism, but decided against it.

And for what it's worth, I find a reason to Bastiate almost every day.



ps - it's because I secretly don't give a shit about sports

pps - thanks for making me look up some boring-ass economic theory bullshit.

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"The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other... involves orcs."
- Kung Fu Monkey


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:22 am 
Godzilla
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http://www.nologoneeded.com/no_logo_nee ... blems.html

Sports teams fleece the taxpayer, again
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28992.html

Beating the Sports Subsidy Trap
http://www.reason.com/news/show/35568.html

Major League Losers: The Real Cost of Sports and Who's Paying for It
http://www.reason.com/news/show/30342.html

http://www.reason.com/news/show/32180.html
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/131725.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/13/us/13seattle.html

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"It is logically impossible to have a game in which both the actions of the players and the final score can be subject to rules of fairness."


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:22 pm 
Godzilla
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http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/24746.html

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"It is logically impossible to have a game in which both the actions of the players and the final score can be subject to rules of fairness."


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:24 pm 
Godzilla
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#4 on Clusterstock's 10 worst sports franchises:

http://www.businessinsider.com/worstspo ... ue-jackets

Quote:
Cause, yeah, considering what Ohio is going through these days, taxpayer money for a hockey team is exactly what they need.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:54 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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Jawbreaker wrote:
#4 on Clusterstock's 10 worst sports franchises:

http://www.businessinsider.com/worstspo ... ue-jackets

Quote:
Cause, yeah, considering what Ohio is going through these days, taxpayer money for a hockey team is exactly what they need.


you know the browns stadium was funded in part by a tax on cigarettes and alcohol?

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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:16 pm 
Godzilla
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Oh it's worse than just a "sin tax"...
(and I would not have voted for it)

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/10148

Quote:
The City of Cleveland has paid $102,823,948.58 to bondholders for the Browns Stadium since 1997, according to the Finance Dept. documents. The city faces financing costs of another $160,367,109.48 in bond payments to be made until November 15, 2027, according to a refinancing done in 2007. The Browns Stadium — a property tax free facility — is used almost exclusively by the team owner. Not only will the stadium never pay property taxes but the lakefront land was donated free by the city.


Quote:
The Lerner family pays $250,000 in rent for its near exclusive use of the Stadium. Around 10 games are played a year.


Quote:
The cost to build the stadium was around $300 million. The taxes to pay this money come from, of course, the “sin” tax, which was extended for 10 extra years, and Cleveland taxes - an 8 percent parking tax, a 2 percent increase in admission tax for all events in the city; and a $2 fee on motor vehicle rentals. Passed by City Council in 1996.


Quote:
The city is also required to feed the capital repair fund for major repairs to the Stadium. The payment schedule is as follows: From 2008 to 2020, the city deposits $850,000 annually; in 2021, $5.9 million; 2022, $6.3 million; in 2023, $6.7 million; in 2024, $7.1 million and finally in 2025, $7.5 million. That’s another $44.55 million cost that the city has to pay.


Quote:
The city doesn’t share in the revenue from tickets sold, usually 72,000 attendance, the 8,000 club seats or the loge revenue, food concessions, parking or advertising in the stadium. All that revenue goes to the needy Lerners.


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 Post subject: Re: Tax increase for purchase of Nationwide Arena?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:02 pm 
Godzilla
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:10 pm
Posts: 6351
Hey, Guess Whose Son Is Begging for an $80 Million Taxpayer Handout for His Pro Sports Franchises?
http://reason.com/blog/show/134150.html

(Hank Paulson)


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