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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:19 pm 
Godzilla
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http://www.latimes.com/news/la-me-westw ... 2886.story

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:31 am 
Godzilla
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bnb614 wrote:
[paraphrase]BOTH SIDES DO IT![/paraphrase]

http://gawker.com/5336973/gop-pay-no-at ... kill-obama
Quote:
These death threats aren't threats—they're challenges. They're attempts to inject into the public debate the sense that violence is a legitimate response to political defeat. As someone in the blogosphere whom we can't presently recall wrote yesterday, the appropriate response to a president who advocates rounding up the elderly and sending them before death panels is—if it seems like he's on the cusp of achieving that goal—to kill or rebel against him. And each publicized call for Obama's death adds to the public perception that we've reached a decision-point about whether it's time for killing. Every sign—even if the bearer is merely an angry loon who could never get close to Obama—is an inducement to someone who is willing to try. It's a message to fellow travelers, a signal that they are not alone in their rage, a promise of glory to come if they actually manage to get the job done. As we said before, there are always people who want to kill the president. The question is how many give it a shot. And the more of these signs there are in the background of Fox News' live report from some town hall in Missouri saying that someone should give it a shot, the more people actually will. And the more people that give it a shot, the more likely someone is to hit the jackpot.

This is not an idle concern: Obama gets 30 death threats every day, according to Ron Kessler, who recently wrote a book about the Secret Service. That's a four-fold increase over the number that George W. Bush—the most reviled president in modern history—received. Secret Service resources are stretched thin, and every threat has to be investigated not matter how harmless.

So what is the GOP's response so far to these threats? "Hey Democrats, They're Called The American People." "No Wonder Democrats Are Smearing Americans – They Read The Headlines." "AS CANDIDATE, OBAMA ENCOURAGED ANGER AND AGGRESSION AMONG HIS SUPPORTERS." Those are quotes from recent GOP press releases striking back at Democrats for calling a mob a mob. Where are the Republican politicians denouncing the violent rhetoric? Can we at least draw the boundary at threatening to kill his children?

I think a fourfold increase is a pretty big increase, and when some of those come from actual "news" personalities (who are now losing their sponsors...) and not just some stupid hippies who think they're anarchists, then that's pretty fucking sad.

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:08 am 
Godzilla
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I'm curious what everyone's take on bringing a gun to townhalls and Presidential speeches is. I realize it's legal, and don't have a major problem with it, except that I think it's stupid and just an intimidation tactic, especially when combined with signs calling for the blood of 'tyrants' to be shed.

I guess what I am saying is, I don't see the point in doing it, and if it's not meant to intimidate, then what is the purpose?

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:28 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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for someone that thinks a bunch of arabs hijacked planes and made buildings melt why u wanna see it through that THE STRAIGHT WHITE MALE IS THE NEW CAVE DWELLING MUSLIM :?: :?: :?:

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:51 pm 
Godzilla
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unpossibles wrote:
I'm curious what everyone's take on bringing a gun to townhalls and Presidential speeches is. I realize it's legal, and don't have a major problem with it, except that I think it's stupid and just an intimidation tactic, especially when combined with signs calling for the blood of 'tyrants' to be shed.

I guess what I am saying is, I don't see the point in doing it, and if it's not meant to intimidate, then what is the purpose?


Why not talk to the guy who did it? Or at least listen to Chris Mathews get all rabid on the guy.



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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:11 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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unpossibles wrote:

I guess what I am saying is, I don't see the point in doing it, and if it's not meant to intimidate, then what is the purpose?


What is the purpose of telling people what you think :?:
I guess what I am saying is, I don't see the point in doing it, and it it's not meant to intimidate, then what is the purpose?


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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:35 pm 
Godzilla
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Mikepoint3 wrote:

Why not talk to the guy who did it?

Well, he lied about at least one thing....

http://www.newser.com/story/66736/gun-t ... rther.html

And he's a RuPaul supporter. Next.

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:36 pm 
Godzilla
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Ramirez wrote:
unpossibles wrote:

I guess what I am saying is, I don't see the point in doing it, and if it's not meant to intimidate, then what is the purpose?


What is the purpose of telling people what you think :?:
I guess what I am saying is, I don't see the point in doing it, and it it's not meant to intimidate, then what is the purpose?

You don't think that bringing a weapon to a debate (it's like a bad joke set up) gives a message?

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:46 pm 
Godzilla
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Wasn't Oswald a Liberal?

What about John Wilks? Also a raging Liberal ...

HEY OH!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:14 am 
Mechagodzilla
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unpossibles wrote:
Ramirez wrote:
unpossibles wrote:

I guess what I am saying is, I don't see the point in doing it, and if it's not meant to intimidate, then what is the purpose?


What is the purpose of telling people what you think :?:
I guess what I am saying is, I don't see the point in doing it, and it it's not meant to intimidate, then what is the purpose?

You don't think that bringing a weapon to a debate (it's like a bad joke set up) gives a message?


You don't think sending the message that bearing a firearm LEGALLY is only meant to intimidate gives a message? Although we could just round them all up as a pre-emptive strike just in case...right :?: :whistle:


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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:16 am 
Mechagodzilla
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Mikepoint3 wrote:
Wasn't Oswald a Liberal?

What about John Wilks? Also a raging Liberal ...

HEY OH!!!!


HEY HEY HEY HEY OH!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:25 am 
Godzilla
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Oswald was a Communist, which despite what Ann Coulter says, is not a Liberal per se.

Booth was a member of the Know Nothing Party, most of whom joined the Republican Party (and which has apparently rediscovered its roots).

Carrying a gun to a debate has nothing to do with anything but intimidation, bully tactics, and possibly a desire to be a martyr ("they're takin our guns away!!1!")

The WH has come out in support of people carrying arms. Yet another argument made by the right which has been completely shot down, but which the right will never admit.

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:41 am 
Mechagodzilla
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unpossibles wrote:
Carrying a gun to a debate has nothing to do with anything but intimidation, bully tactics, and possibly a desire to be a martyr ("they're takin our guns away!!1!")



You are so sexy when you state your opinion as fact :!: Too bad Rachael Maddow still aint gonna blow you :(
I also heard that speaking out against war makes you anti-american, a terrorist and against our troops. But hey, if you can't stand behind our troops try standing in front of them.


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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:45 am 
Godzilla
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Thanks. Ok, I'll ask again: what is the purpose of it then? Just because they can/it's legal? No other reason? Coincidence?

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:57 am 
Mechagodzilla
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unpossibles wrote:
Thanks. Ok, I'll ask again: what is the purpose of it then? Just because they can/it's legal? No other reason? Coincidence?


You do realize that you don't want an answer to this other than the answer you've already decided on right? I realize that and I hope you do to. In that way, it's a dishonest question and that's why I'm fucking with you over it.
It is the mans right to do so...like it or not. I think the purpose is pretty much to push the envelope to open eyes to what he feels is going on. It's not even civil disobedience bc he is breaking no law. He was on t.v. trying to state his cause and he got there by not breaking the law and people are disgusted by this??? Think about that, it's odd. Gun ownership has been so demonized in this country that it's easy to get people all fired up about a guy legally carrying a gun and that's exactly what is happening. So instead of following the mass hysteria down that path why not focus something of substance? It's almost as easy as getting people to go along with hairbrained schemes that will keep them safe from terrorists. Stop falling for the same magic trick just because it's performed by another magician.
:roll:


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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:18 am 
Godzilla
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No, the question was real. I am not anti-gun, but I don't see the point in displaying a loaded gun (along with a sign calling for the blood of the President - which he lied about just like he lied about his Birther connections) at a townhall discussion on health care.

Were the townhall about gun rights, I'd totally understand it. Were he actually concerned for his own safety, I'd sort of understand it, although I'd also think he was being paranoid.

With the history we have of political assassination (including non-Presidents), the rhetoric being displayed by his peers and the rightwing media, and the death threats to pretend that this has no agenda, or that he's just randomly displaying because he can makes no sense to me. Does he wear his gun everywhere, or was this a special event for him?

And frankly, to say that gun owners are demonized in this country is like saying fast food is demonized - sure there are outspoken people who yell about it, but most Americans are fine with guns, and we're a very gun-steeped culture on both sides of the aisle. I'd bet most of us have family and/or friends who own guns, and may even be owners ourselves, so to say gun owners are demonized is not entirely honest, other than by a handful of people in the media.

Then again, the fringe elements do seem to like playing the victim card.

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:22 am 
Mechagodzilla
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http://trueslant.com/level/2009/08/18/d ... ith-a-gun/

Quote:
The Secret Service detained a man with a gun in a Des Moines park where President Bush was jogging, local police and White House officials said.

Secret Service spokesman Jim Mackin said the man was about 60 yards from Bush when he was spotted by officers. He said the man had a permit for the gun, but he was detained because he was so close to the president. Mackin said the man appeared to be in the park for reasons completely unrelated to Bush’s visit.


ok. bush secret service arrested people with guns too close to the president. nobody fired up the 1st and 2nd amendment gins over that.

obama secret service lets people with registered firearms stand within shooting distance of the president. but if we try to remove them, we're infringing on their rights.

what about obama's rights to, you know, keep on living? or my rights to not have my democratically elected officials gunned down?

despite being "totally legal" under the 1st and 2nd amendments, how can anyone argue that brandishing a gun in the presence of the president of the united states and verbally calling for his assassination is anything but a terrorist tactic?

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:46 am 
Mechagodzilla
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unpossibles wrote:
No, the question was real. I am not anti-gun, but I don't see the point in displaying a loaded gun (along with a sign calling for the blood of the President - which he lied about just like he lied about his Birther connections) at a townhall discussion on health care.

What is the state motto in NH? I mean c'mon with what signs say or what people carry. the gun never left the holster. I'm not going to run to a side on this bc I think everyone has gone fucking nuts and it's embarassing to watch on all sides.
And again, you don't have to see a point...why did they climb everest? bc it was there. Why do people have to protest? because they can. If this man feels that the government is taking away rights (not my stance) then he can try and push it by excercising a right in hopes that he gets arrested for it and can then make a stink. He was not arrested and thank goodness for the level headed approach to that but with all the [i]Liberal media[/b] fervor over it he may as well have been. You are taking something that could have gone by without mention and making it a focal point which is drawing away from the real issue at hand. What do you really hope will be accomplished by this?
justin wrote:
http://trueslant.com/level/2009/08/18/didnt-the-secret-service-used-to-arrest-people-that-got-near-the-president-with-a-gun/

obama secret service lets people with registered firearms stand within shooting distance of the president. but if we try to remove them, we're infringing on their rights.

so the secret service that serves the president is letting a man excercise his rights...that's good...another good move to seperate yourself from the Bush regime.

Quote:
what about obama's rights to, you know, keep on living? or my rights to not have my democratically elected officials gunned down?[/b]

That's just a dumb statement. sorry. did someone unholster their gun and aim? shoot? Get out of here with that. We'd all be safer form one another if we all lived in cages too.

Quote:
despite being "totally legal" under the 1st and 2nd amendments, how can anyone argue that brandishing a gun in the presence of the president of the united states and verbally calling for his assassination is anything but a terrorist tactic?
[/quote]

doesn't deserve reply.


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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:24 pm 
Godzilla
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But it does deserve a reply. Of course they did not unholster their weapons. Why? Because they were not there to shoot anyone, obviously.

But they were there to send a strong(arm) message, that violence is the answer to their problems if you do not go along with what they want.

We have a word for people who use fear of violence and intimidation tactics to get what they want: the IRS. I thought you were against that sort of thing. :D

Seriously though, I'm not attacking these people's rights to be ignorant morons. I''m questioning their motives.

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:34 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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dear ramirez,

i am going to camp out in front of your house with my registered gun and a sign that implies that i want to kill you. i am going to bring a bunch of my friends with me who will also have clever signs alluding to how badly we want you dead.

please don't call the police, because i am simply exercising my rights to free speech, free assembly, and bearing arms.

but you should be very afraid of me.


xo,
justin

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:56 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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unpossibles wrote:
But it does deserve a reply. Of course they did not unholster their weapons. Why? Because they were not there to shoot anyone, obviously.

But they were there to send a strong(arm) message, that violence is the answer to their problems if you do not go along with what they want.

We have a word for people who use fear of violence and intimidation tactics to get what they want: the IRS. I thought you were against that sort of thing. :D

Seriously though, I'm not attacking these people's rights to be ignorant morons. I''m questioning their motives.

justin wrote:
dear ramirez,

i am going to camp out in front of your house with my registered gun and a sign that implies that i want to kill you. i am going to bring a bunch of my friends with me who will also have clever signs alluding to how badly we want you dead.

please don't call the police, because i am simply exercising my rights to free speech, free assembly, and bearing arms.

but you should be very afraid of me.


xo,
justin


Dear dudes. Be honest with yourselves and everyone else and just state your desire regarding this situation.
nuff said. end of story.


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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:18 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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Ramirez wrote:
Be honest with yourselves and everyone else and just state your desire regarding this situation.


^this is exactly what i want the people showing up with guns at obama rallies to do. whether that means firing off some rounds, engaging in intelligent debate (read: understanding the issue and not just shouting yer lungs out), or shutting the fuck up and going home, i don't care. just don't hide behind this bullshit posturing.

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:36 pm 
Godzilla
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My desire? I just want people to stop trying to use a show of force to justify their delusions of power grabs. I include the government too - I don't want to see them using force to do the same thing any more than I want Joe Yokel to do so.

We have a system that can work pretty well, except it's fuckered up from too many lawyers, guns, and money, and more importantly people too lazy to pay attention and look shit up.

And bringing a weapon to a discussion is just plain rude. I also wish people would stop acting like it doesn't send a very obvious message.

Is it that hard?

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:01 pm 
Godzilla
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Quote:
In Louisville, Kentucky, two young men in camouflage fatigues roamed the crowd trying to recruit new members for their militia called the Ohio Valley Freedom Fighters. They bear signs reading "AK-47s: today's pitchfork" and "Quit worrying. Start your militia training today."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/12/ ... index.html

I wonder if they get the irony of a Soviet weapon being the tool to fight oppressive Socialism...

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 Post subject: Re: DHS Report - right wing extremism on the rise
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:50 pm 
Godzilla
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It's gettin hot up in here.

http://markepstein.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... -in-or-out

Quote:
The First Days

Conceivably, within the first days of an armed revolt, numerous politicians, Obama hacks, federal judges, and media members would be killed. Although the president may order active-duty military forces to supplement local law enforcement, it is doubtful that more than 40% of the military would obey his order to shoot American citizens and most of the military’s trained “gun fighters” are otherwise engaged in overseas combat zones. Additionally, many law enforcement personnel would opt to focus on humanitarian aid for those Americans caught in the crossfire versus taking on a well-armed and determined citizenry.

....

The Second Week

After a brief lull in the killing, this period would be remembered as the time of purging. Obama supporters would be summarily executed in their homes and on the streets.

...

The First Month

By this point, the military would be experiencing the highest desertion rate in its history, as active-duty members sought to ensure the safety of their own families or joined the revolt. Local law enforcement and the state’s National Guards would be providing humanitarian assistance only, and their orders would include not firing on armed Americans and using their own firearms only to defend women and children, having already experienced losses themselves for interfering with summary executions of male Obama supporters.

....


Nothing to see here, move along....

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