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 Post subject: This Past Friday...What was going on?
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:09 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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This past Friday, May 9th...were there alot of good shows going on?

The reason I ask, could be cause for one heated debate that I know I've had with other friends that go to alot of shows, but I'm not sure has been discussed here on these message boards (correct me if I'm wrong).

My point is that I was at the Caitlin Cary (from Whiskeytown)/Bush League AllStars show on Friday and there was MAYBE 40-50 people there, of which I think about 10 were people waiting around for the techno to start next door so they could shake their rumps. My question about other good shows going on around town would answer why there wasn't a ton of people at such a great show. It was my first time seeing BLA and they were superb, enjoyed their set immensely (Sub-question: all of them looked familiar, were they all in Greenhorn at one point?)

If there weren't other good shows going on in town....perhaps I can now answer one of my own bigger complaints. I was one of those folks who was consistently disappointed about some of the indie & mid-sized acts that would skip over Columbus in booking tours, but as of late, we seem to keep getting more and more of these acts in Columbus which I thought was awesome! But, maybe the reason they stopped coming to Columbus in the first place was because of poor turn-out.

Was it just a fluke with Friday's show or is the bigger problem that it takes a helluva line-up to get Columbus' fair-weather concert go-ers out to see a show?

Sidenote: I know there are other factors that play into concert attendance such as weather, ticket price, venue, other shows/events going on in town, advertising/promoting done for the show, etc. I just thought 40-50 people was awfully, awfully low attendance for this concert. Its a trend I've kind of been watching with a few shows of late and I'm really thinking perhaps this town is just lazy & apathetic to it all... (this is of course a generalization and doesn't include all concert go-ers) just an observation... I'm going to add to my research with the Detachment Kit show tonight & the Mayday show Tuesday... I've just walked out of a ton of shows lately thinking to myself, 'man, i feel bad for that band, they were amazing and there was barely anybody here to see them...' has anyone felt the same?

what do you guys think? Are you seeing the same thing or not? Is it a generalization that can be made or is it one of things that has to be taken case by case, or rather, concert by concert?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:14 pm 
Godzilla

Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:54 pm
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i think it's been getting a little better, lately. but we're heading into summer, so i expect stuff will drop again soon, and we'll all stand around and go see our friends' bands every other night, get drunk, and wait for school to get back in so we can do something other than fart around and scratch our heads.

but maybe that's just me.

can't be there tonight, i have to work. otherwise i would be.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:15 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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Well, I wasn't at Friday's show simply because I really don't like Caitlin's music. I had one of her newer albums but it just didn't do anything for me.

I went to Gomez last week thinking no one would be there at Newport, and the show was well packed. Several hundred people. For a band that's never played Columbus, zero radio airplay, and their last record came out in 2002. What the fuck? I just don't know.

I'll be at the Kopaz show tonight, though.

rob

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:31 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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While this thread doesn't necessarily answer your question as to why people weren't at the Caitlin Cary show, it's a similar topic about why more people weren't at the Idlewild show.

http://donewaiting.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=617

I would have/should have gone to the show if for no other reason than to support BLAS (one my favorites)(FYI - Yes, you did see 3 former members of Greenhorn in BLAS). But, there are a LOT of shows this week that I want to go to so I had to pass on the Caitlin Cary show.

I think we've come to the conclusion that there is no easy way to answer why more people don't go out to shows.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:46 pm 
Godzilla

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I don't miss many bush league shows if i can help it, but I was in an airplane at the time and i'd never really heard caitlyn cary before so I'm not sure if i would have dropped $12 on it anyway.

But as for why I don't go to more shows, it usually comes down to
1. money There's lots of bands i'd like to see, but on a restricted budget if i haven't really heard a band (or more than one song) before, i'd probably buy a CD rather than spend $10-15 on a concert. For example, i was debating tonights Burning Brides show (downloaded a few songs, which rocked but didn't impress me as much as the song they play on 101) , but had ended up deciding against it until i ended up being able to get put on the guest list, so i'll be there.
2. i know i'm getting old but they're just too damn late and more importantly i never have any clue when the 1 band out of 4 i actually want to see is going to play. I fucking hate showing up at a venue at 10 and sitting through 2 or 3 crappy bands before the one i want to see finally goes on at 1.
3. There's a lot of shows i'd like to see, but i've got 2 kids every other week and i don't feel like pawning them off on my parents more than once during that time if i can help it.


Something just came to me. Don't know if this thought has any validity or not, but it's something to consider. Columbus has a VERY strong local scene in comparison to most cities. Maybe one reason why national shows are less well attended here than other cities is because people go out more often to local shows. I know if there weren't local bands for me to go see all the time, i'd be more likely to go out to a national band when they did come through town.


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 Post subject: yeah
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:48 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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yeah, i agree...there really isn't an answer I suppose... too many extenuating circumstances. I was just under the assumption that more people would go to shows if there were more/better shows to go to... but that isn't the case. sometimes you just don't feel like it, sometimes you are broke, sometimes you gotta work, sometimes you got something else to do, and I know the majority of people that would go to these shows are other musicians in columbus and the weekend is when most people play, so you have other commitments...I was just more curious to see if people had seen that at other shows too...I thought perhaps it was just a 'weeknight' show thing, i don't know...

-i just didn't want all these great bands coming to town, being disappointed with the turnout and heading elsewhere again and we end up in the same rut again...hopefully we'll be able to keep improving the attendance and keep this increasing show trend and keeping trying to put Columbus on the map as a city that bands must hit while touring....

just my 2 cents


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 3:55 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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I agree with Greenhorn1 when he says it's tough going to a show that doesn't even start until 10. Back in the college days or even right after graduating, it was no big deal staying out until 2am. But now, living out in the burbs, working an 8 to 5 day job, coming home to play with the kiddies, etc., I don't make the drive to downtown or campus nearly as much I used to. I know I'm missing out on seeing a lot of great bands but I really won't go to a show unless I love the headliner or unless I really like some of the openers. It's not worth it to me to take a chance on a show.

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 Post subject: very true...
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 4:13 pm 
Mechagodzilla
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very true. i work an 8-5 job, but don't have kids or dealing with getting from suburbia to the campus area/downtown yet thank goodness...

i wish we could show some of the venues, that earlier shows (during the week especially) would be ideal...for example, the caitlin cary show was over at 11:40pm. nice.


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 Post subject: Where did all the concert people go
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 4:47 pm 
Snarf

Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 3:34 pm
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
As always just my two cents but most bands pass on Columbus because it doesn't make them money. If you can play Indy, Cleveland, and Detroit why throw Columbus in the mix if the show will be a loss? 10 years ago there was way more DIY booking so smaller bands said hey if we can make $100.00 we are there. Now you have a booking agent that says we need this much money to even open talks on a show. A club then says we can only pay this amount. All you get is two sides that don’t match so the band skips Columbus.

The bigger and more important question is why does no one go when a smaller band does come through town? My best guess is because we don't have a college/Indy radio presence at all and we don't have a venue with a built in crowd etc. etc. etc. How can a band like Idelwild have the number two college album and get less than 100 people at the Newport. Seriously??????

I am sure there is a reason for it but there is NO PLACE to play on the biggest campus in the world. And by no place I mean a cool venue that can do 50-250 people with alcohol, that you can walk to and ABOVE ALL ELSE is all ages. Stache’s became Little Brothers and the days of a campus venue died. The days of tons of OSU kids going to shows died with it as well. Oldfields is 21 and Up. Little Brothers just out of walking distance and the spots on campus that do have bands are not worth a touring bands time.

Bands are left with cool venues that offer no built in crowd, limited buzz, no radio support and offer no real reason to come to town from a financial perspective. Sure it’s about putting yourself out there day in and day out and about the live shows and connecting with fans even if it’s only 10 people but at the end of the night you got to sleep. You got to eat and buy gas as well so you pass on Columbus.

How do you fix it? If it was me I would work the other way. Build a club that bands want to come to instead of a club just getting bands. Make it known to fans that if you are not at this club you will miss out on up and coming bands. For bands you will miss out on a packed house. Make it easy for bands to come to town without heavy promotion. 9 times out of 10 if a band can break even they would take a show with tons of people versus a show that pays really well with no one there. Make the events cheap as hell, get back the OSU students and the “regular” 9x5 folks and get creative with how you make money instead of just gauging fans at the door with high ticket costs. I can think of a ton of ways to do this.

Pack the house and the bands will come back to Columbus.


Last edited by Stardrop on Mon May 12, 2003 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 4:56 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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Bernie's.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 4:58 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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God bless ya, Stardrop. You speak loads of wisdom.

As I was cutting the grass out in the burbs yesterday, I was thinking, "How can a club get people to come to shows?" How about this -- PromoWest, Little Brothers, etc. come up with a "Concert Card". The only thing you have to do to get a card is to sign up for their mailing list, a list in which you'd get updates on upcoming shows. Like the Subway Club card, for every ticket to a show you buy, you get a punch in your card. Once you've bought a certain amount of tickets (I think 5 would be fair since that's probably how many shows the "average" -- and most of us on this board are NOT average -- person goes to) you get a free ticket to an upcoming show of your choice, regardless of how much the ticket costs everybody else. Give back to the people that support you and they'll continue to support you.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 5:01 pm 
Jet Jaguar

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:36 pm
Posts: 353
Quote:
This past Friday, May 9th...were there alot of good shows going on?


Friday night May 9 was a huge night in Columbus music, and I can guarantee this is why attendance was so low at The Factory.
The Sovines played their FINAL show ever at the High 5 Friday night and it was absolutely packed. The dancing went on all night and the Sovine's put on an unbelievable show. The Sovine's show was certainly the place to be that night.

Also at Skully's, which was ABSOLUTELY packed was Artie's Twang-A-Thon. This country-cover show bill had Townsmen, The Midnighter's, and the Franklin County Supergroup. The Townsmen played Delaware County rock, meaning X cover tunes, and the audience went wild and of course knew every word to every song. The Midnighter's crowd was toe to toe people but I had to shoot out of there for The Sovine's. Everyone was decked out in their Country wear. hats, boots, shiny shirts, big belt buckles.
I went back to Skully's to check out The Franklin County Supergroup (featuring members of: Maxtone, King Combine, Miss Mamie, Pat Dull, Black Mountain Creeper, Devil's Choice, Non Zero, and Supermacho) and the crowd was still jampacked. I would guess well over 600 people between the two venues. I'll tell you, it was a great time, and just about everyone I know was there- hopping between the High 5 and Skully's.


Last edited by Jred on Mon May 12, 2003 11:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 6:13 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:40 pm
Posts: 508
Location: philadelphia
robertduffy wrote:
Bernie's.


Bernie's is easily the closest venue to campus, & they put on all-ages shows, but the amount of effort they put into things there is sorely lacking (note that I'm speaking as me here, not as some representative of the band). The bathrooms are disgusting, the place consistently reeks of urine, the sound is generally pretty shitty, and if you're not practically right on top of the "stage," you really can't see much. I realize that's part of the "charm," the punk rock aesthetic if you will, and I'm ok with that; I've both seen and played my fair share of REALLY enjoyable shows there.

On the other hand, if you're trying to lure out Joe Student from across the street, it's going to be hard to convince him to come out to a place like that, much like it's going to be hard to convince Generic Band on tour to come out & play a place like that.

What can be done? I wish I had a solution to this, but the current atmosphere of campus-area High St. is not very conducive to opening a concert venue.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2003 7:24 pm 
Jet Jaguar

Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:36 pm
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Quote:
I think we've come to the conclusion that there is no easy way to answer why more people don't go out to shows.


I honestly feel that most of the shows I've been to in the last couple weeks have been jam-packed:
The Sun/ Flaming Lips Sold Out
The Honey's /Eric Wrong packed
Shesus /Gypsy Witch packed
Silencio/Dalek/Trans Am- Biggest crowd I've ever seen at The Factory (in the Lounge) There must have been 250 people at this show on a Sunday night. Jam packed from the front of the stage to at least the middle of the bar.
Twang-A-Thon packed
The Sovine's packed
Gil Mantera's Dream Party Sunday night 100+ people

I fully expect The Melvin's show to be packed. (can't wait!) How about Beck, Sonic Youth, Jack Johnson and Ben Harper (sold out)? I am sure these crowds will be great.

I bet even with three choices in late night shows this upcoming Saturday night- the Fruit Bats at The Factory, Cringe CD release at Skully's, and the Jive Turkey's CD release at Lil Bro's- all 3 shows will have good crowds. If one of these shows is going to suffer it will be the Fruit Bats- b/c so many of the local musicians, frequent concert goers, scensters, rockers, music lovers -who on a regular night would be the ones in attendance- will be at the two local shows- b/c that is where all their friends will be and where their loyalty lies.

And the local shows these days are really doing a good job of putting all of the bands that I want to see, together in one place on Saturday night:
Go Evil Shiki playing the Jive Turkey's show.
Bush League All-Stars, The Husher, Classical Ass, The Evil Queens at Skully's for Cringe release
and of Course the early show at Promowest (5:00 till 11:00) with Townsmen, The Honey's, The Sun, X-rated Cowboys, Thee Invaders, Hex on Wheels, thestoryof (Athens band), Tcondo, Watershed.
I have only seen Townsmen, The Honey's and the Sun in this group- but I've been dying to check out Thee Invaders, Hex, and thestoryof.

So if there are BIG LOCAL shows going on- The Final Sovine's show vs. Caitlin Cary, Cringe &/or Jive Turkeys or The Fruit Bats (which I would LOVE to see) ... well I guess we'll see on Saturday.


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 Post subject: friday
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2003 5:31 pm 
Mothra

Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2003 2:29 pm
Posts: 53
i seem to remember seeing a lot of people out thursday night that week. that might have had an effect on friday crowds. not everybody is up for staying out really late two days in a row. the crowd was pretty good at the factory for the supersuckers, and into it too, which is always nice. it wasn't interpol packed, but not bad nonetheless.

as for the osu crowd, i know a lot of people were in the same boat as me, finishing up midterms. sometimes you wanna go out after a tiring week, other times you just wanna chill and wait til saturday.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 9:45 am 
I think that lack of all ages venues is one of the greatest dtriments to our little scene. Live rock has always been a game for the youngin's, and C'bus excludes them. (I do realize mostly because of the legall issues) They are the ones with enthusiasm and the disposable income. Also, unless you are a person that is moved by all types of original music, you most likely won't go to a place like Little Brothers unless you know the band that is playing. We have a town full of "civilians" and not nearly enough realize what is growing in their own back yard


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 10:02 am 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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Danza -- thanks for the comments. The question becomes, what more can be done to get kids/civilians out to shows? Donewaiting does a pretty good job of hyping shows. ColumbusMusic.com does an okay job (though you find out more by reading the message boards than anything else). The Other Paper has a decent music section. The ALIVE has a GREAT music section. The Dispatch and The Lantern do a pretty good job of covering shows. What can we do as a community to make sure people come out to shows?

To put things into perspective, I've been trading e-mails with somebody from Moviola. I've been complaining that nobody shows up for good shows. His response was this:

"It's Columbus. Nobody will EVER come out to shows where it takes a little bit of refinement, taste, or appreciation of something other than butt-ugly regurgirock. I've been of legal drinking age for 16 years now and it hasn't changed.

1986 - 30 people see the dBs
1989 - 21 people see the Pixies
1992 - 18 people see Royal Trux
1994 - 27 people see the Flaming Lips at newport
1998 - 40 people see Willard Grant Conspiracy
1999 - 23 people see Souled American (the greatest band of all time)
2001 - 17 people see Fuck and Two Dollar Guitar
2003 - 35 people see Califone with a dj booming in the next room

detect a pattern? which is not to say they weren't good shows. don't drive yourself crazy when stooges in your lame-o hometown don't show. Just prepare for it, and if by some miracle more people show, hey, that's gravy. Quote me."

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 Post subject: damaged
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 11:49 am 
Mothra

Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:19 pm
Posts: 91
this might be an unpopular theory but I'll throw it out there anyway. the late 90's ruined the columbus music scene. Staches closed and people slowly fell out of the scene. Little Brothers and the Newport were the only players when it came to booking mid-sized touring bands and big locals. Neither offers much in terms of sound quality and atmosphere. This might be just fine and dandy to music junkies like us but for those people who are more casual concert goers it's a deal breaker. the only thing worse than sitting through a bad band is sitting through a bad band through a bad PA inside an old, cold, dank box. While I was around when Stache's was open I've been told that while it was far from pretty it had "atmosphere" and a "vibe". two elusive elements that the two aforementioned venues were never really able to find. I know it will be argued that "those people who stopped going to shows aren't real music fans anyway, who needs em, blah blah blah". Well the fact is that without them you just don't have a thriving music scene. Without them the bars/venues can't make money and become more and more conservative with their booking choices.

I think columbus music is currently undergoing a house cleaning and restructing (for the better) of who the real players are when it comes to clubs, booking and promotion. that being said the biggest challenge to these folks will be convincing the general public that the lull that has existed since the closing of Staches is over. Good bands are being booked in Columbus now mostly due to the competition that The Factory presents and the opening of Promowest.

It's actually the same problem that I believe that CD101 has. Their core audience gave up on them years ago. They switched the dial to NPR and haven't checked back. If they do what will they hear? The challenge to the factory, little brothers, skully's and promowest is how to get them out of the movie theatres and dance clubs and into seeing live bands.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:04 pm 
Jason, that is probably the toughest challenge(how to get them out of movies, meat markets,...) As for gettin' the kiddies into shows, I think a huge problem is location. Nothing is located or apparently allowed to be located on campus. The only exception is Red 16, but I think that they need to be more consistant in their schedule. Since age, in my opinion, is a major issue, why don't we as a scene - try to do more stuff like Red 16 or the Workbook & other studio parties. Now I'm as fond of the liquor as the next guy, but if we avoid liquor licences, we can be more inclusive. The real bitch of it all would be to finding a space with an acceptable PA and engineer. Just $.02. After all I'm just the anonymous guy


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:04 pm 
Godzilla

Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:54 pm
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i agree, restructuring is probably good.

there's a ton of really good bands and musicians in this town, for real, i think there's more consistently good stuff coming out of columbus right now than there has been in years.

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 Post subject: restructuring
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:12 pm 
Mothra

Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:19 pm
Posts: 91
I agree... the talent in columbus right now is unbelievable and I think with people like Rob Duffy being involved and some new venues opening things are definetly looking up.

as for the all ages thing, I couldn't agree more. the main reason you don't see venues like Red16 more is that they are completely unprofitable(no alcohol sales). They have to be subsidized by someone else. For Red16 I believe it's a church. There is a place in Bloomington that's actually funded by the state or local government called Rhino's. unfortunetly with the way our gov is headed I don't see that concept catching on.

perhaps rich people will help fund all ages venues with the money they save via bush's Tax cuts??? that's the plan right?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:18 pm 
Godzilla

Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2003 12:54 pm
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i think there's a place in louisville that actually got an NEA grant to be run as an art and performance space. i think. i forget what it's called.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 2:19 pm 
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With all the musicians that lurk around here, can anybody think of a reputable (and cheap) sound person that "we" could use to put on shows somewhere?

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