One single post in a larger discussion..
During the PBJ discussion
, Tiger Yang
Get fucked. You're willing to whittle through 14+ pages on the internet supporting, condoning (and in some cases admitting to?) criminal acts of vandalism and destruction of property to individuals and small business owners (many of them being minority business owners, if you want to keep playing that card) - but the second someone uses a relatively benign term such as "wigger" you're the first one to jump on the sensitive pony. Perhaps this "thug" lifestyle isn't working out for you too well. Can I suggest something less emotionally strenuous, like yoga or perhaps bowling? I mean, I know these are categorically ‘white’ things to do and it doesn’t help the delicately-constructed persona you’ve spent so much time carefully crafting for yourself, but if not, I guess I can take your nomenclature-wary breed of street cred to task and you can come and throw tags near where I live, in Bedstuy or Bushwick or Jamaica Queens, where I’m sure the locals will be endlessly impressed with that infamously-rugged brand of Ohio O.G. ‘thuggin.’ Put that in your pussy-wagon and smoke it.
I find it absolutely hilarious that you’ll spend years of your life co-opting someone else’s culture for your own wash-and-wear, faux-thug, paper-machete, voyeur ‘gangsta’ horseshit but the second someone calls you out on it, you either a jump on an ad hoc race-wagon or you play the role of cultural defector, making silly snippets about 401ks and campus whites when we all know that you’re cut from the same goddamn vanilla cloth. Is this the sort of ‘significant-other-ness’ role-playing that you’ve been looking for? I’m glad I could give you that fantasy, albeit for only a second. I’d rather pop that bubble and remind you that just because ‘white boyz’ have had a history of co-opting black culture, it doesn’t give you carte blanche to play a race card just because you can’t argue correctly, m-kay?
And please don't argue with me, or engaging me in one of your mouth-breathing battle-of-the-wits barnyard rutting spells, especially if you can’t manage the capacity to use your own mother tongue or to punctuate a sentence correctly. Please don’t embarrass yourself.
Finally, if my utterance of the word “wigger” happened to offend any wiggers out there, I truly apologize. I’ll make sure to call you something more suitable next time, like “Whegroes” or “Uncle Trevors” or something to that effect. No, really, I mean it – get off my lawn and get cancer.
Days later, in a second PBJ thread
, who was not involved in any of the PBJ discussions wrote:
I read almost the entire grafitti thread and i just want all you White people out there to know that as a Black man, I'm personally honestly offended by how often some of you people are throwing around the word "wigger". Even though you know that under the guise of anonymity you can write it on a message board and say its ok and doesnt have any racist connotations to it, I think you all are smart enough to know the truth, which is what you feel in your heart. That shit is wrong. If you want to call somebody a poser or fake or a hack, then by all means do it. But dont act like "white" + "n*****" doesn't equal "wigger".
Its like being with the fellas and calling women "bitches", but when you actually get around women they're not "bitches" anymore. Same thing with this word "wigger". I kick it with a LOT of white people, and none of them throw around that word or "nigga" and I respect them for that.
Now, I'm not saying you all are racist for saying it, but i do think you all need to think about your words and their impact on people who may not even be the target of your insults.
Its perfectly justifiable to be against grafitti, and want to insult the people who do it because they may have hurt you. But i think you step over a really ugly line when you start calling white people "wiggers", and not accepting that you can offend somebody black (me for example) or white (envelope for example) with this term. That word is just plain ole destructive..and whats worse is that you post photos of what "wiggers" are supposed to look like, and those pictures look NOTHING like the people your trying to insult in the first place. I think it just went too far, but since i just read it i couldnt really speak on it until now.
I'm not asking anybody to apologize or even defend their actions again because whats done is done. I just want you to think about your words, how powerful they are, and how people you may not even intend to offend can get caught in the crossfire and become your enemies when they may have actually been on your side.
As you were...
p.s. I'm sure it could be argued that black people say "nigga" all the time, so why cant we say wigger. But I would like you to understand that there are plenty of Black people out there that were not raised like that and dont do this. Maybe thats why i'm offended. Its not just a word, and there are plenty of other words you all can use that do not have the destructive racial connotations attacted to them.
In a discussion
where cruise_elroy took issue with how certain production credits were handled with the Grafton album, Lou Post wrote:
wow, i'm not really a reader of the board, i mean i shill on occasion for a big show, but this seems a little silly?? no one should have to defend themselves in a forum like this-it's ridiculous, and none of the 'higher calling' type reasons for having this kind of discussion will ever be touched with so much acrimony attached. i mean, does anyone think that there's gonna be a resolution here? that usually occurs in a bar or at some party, yes over drinks. sorry, but we're all just gonna have to go git shitfaced and talk passionately about music. in the same room. maybe we should get bim involved. so here:
thanks nick, for doing such great work on our recordings, for little and no money, we (grafton) still owe you beer and a debt of gratitude (and post away about that kind of shit, we're dicks). hit me up anytime, you know where i work. the shit sounds awesome, and was exactly what we wanted.
thanks CDR for pressing our record on vinyl so that both formats would be available at the same time, and for being so goddamned excited about it. and for providing the artwork gratis, which is fucking awesome, even though it was rushed into existance and some key info was omitted (btw, my name's not on it either). working with you guys has so far been very refreshing, and your energy is not being wasted.
both of you do great work in columbusland, and i hope you can start to see each other as equally successful, integral, important parts of what's really important here:
Finally, I created that Cringe/donewaiting grafitti logo, so it ain't in the running.