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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:21 pm 
Godzilla

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:37 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: The Gettin' Place
robertduffy wrote:
i'd say that this debate was good for the first few pages but we're kinda going in circles at this point, right?

let's bring some new stuff to the table


I concur and I am to blame for some of those circles, but yes, this convo is going nowhere.....


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:22 pm 
King Ghidorah

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:53 pm
Posts: 547
That would be really applicable jaw, if we were using highway or bridge money for the streetcar...or building a 40 mile line.

p.s. if you can find me ANY public transit used by "the majority of American commuters" I say build it right away.


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:25 pm 
Godzilla
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PinheadFestival wrote:
thisoneholymedium wrote:
bnb614 wrote:
And I don't believe you that you aren't involved in the streetcar plan somehow. You have the talking points down pat.


i'm pretty sure this dude is coremodels on columbus underground-if you wanna go through all those posts i imagine you could figure out what he does for a living


or just ask :shock:


i'm right though, huh?

what do you do?

i need a new job


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:27 pm 
King Ghidorah

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:53 pm
Posts: 547
thisoneholymedium wrote:
i'm right though, huh?

what do you do?

i need a new job


Yep, coremodels on C/U.

I am a mother agent only at this point, but I used to have a full scale agency here in town for models and talent for local work. Now I just maintain a set number of models who are "major market" capable, develop them and send them to whatever city they're most suited to with a contract there and collect 5% as their mother agent.

p.s. and these days, raise a 3 year old and 9 month old...which is making me miss the more full time agency work.


Last edited by PinheadFestival on Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:29 pm 
Godzilla
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:12 pm
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Location: not dead or in jail
PinheadFestival wrote:
thisoneholymedium wrote:
i'm right though, huh?

what do you do?

i need a new job


Yep, coremodels on C/U.

I am a mother agent only at this point, but I used to have a full scale agency here in town for models and talent for local work. Now I just maintain a set number of models who are "major market" capable, develop them and send them to whatever city they're most suited to with a contract there and collect 5% as their mother agent.


so, what you're telling me is that you can help me capitalize on my good looks?


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:30 pm 
King Ghidorah

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:53 pm
Posts: 547
thisoneholymedium wrote:
PinheadFestival wrote:
thisoneholymedium wrote:
i'm right though, huh?

what do you do?

i need a new job


Yep, coremodels on C/U.

I am a mother agent only at this point, but I used to have a full scale agency here in town for models and talent for local work. Now I just maintain a set number of models who are "major market" capable, develop them and send them to whatever city they're most suited to with a contract there and collect 5% as their mother agent.


so, what you're telling me is that you can help me capitalize on my good looks?


LOL...if they're good enough, absolutely :D


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:36 pm 
Godzilla
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Location: not dead or in jail
i don't have a portfolio

what do i do


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:39 pm 
King Ghidorah

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:53 pm
Posts: 547
thisoneholymedium wrote:
i don't have a portfolio

what do i do


If female, need to be 13-19, 5'8"-5'11", size 0 to 6.

If male, need to be 17-26, 5'10"-6'3", waist no larger than 32.


If you fit those basics and are serious, send me a pm.

p.s. Portfolio isn't really a big deal, nor is it a necessity to start getting into the business. If it's something anyone looks at getting into, the one thing to remember...don't pay your agent for a portfolio or anything else other than a percentage of work you actually do.


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:48 pm 
Godzilla
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:12 pm
Posts: 3415
Location: not dead or in jail
PinheadFestival wrote:
thisoneholymedium wrote:
i don't have a portfolio

what do i do


If female, need to be 13-19, 5'8"-5'11", size 0 to 6.

If male, need to be 17-26, 5'10"-6'3", waist no larger than 32.


If you fit those basics and are serious, send me a pm.

p.s. Portfolio isn't really a big deal, nor is it a necessity to start getting into the business. If it's something anyone looks at getting into, the one thing to remember...don't pay your agent for a portfolio or anything else other than a percentage of work you actually do.


sweet

i'm a size 0 16 year old female

pm sent


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:10 pm 
Godzilla
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I'm a 6,3" 12" waisted 24 year old male.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:11 pm 
Godzilla
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Quote:
Portland has attracted attention as a model for smart-
growth planning and light-rail transit. From a ridership
point of view—that is, ignoring cost—this attention
appears well-deserved. Since the first light-rail line
opened in 1986, transit ridership has kept pace with
driving, both nearly doubling. Transit passenger miles
have actually grown by more than 150 percent, meaning
transit’s share of motorized travel has increased from 1.8
to 2.3 percent.

The only problem with this story is that transit’s share
of travel was greater, at 2.6 percent, in 1982 before the
transit agency raised fares and cut bus service to help pay
for rail cost overruns. Portland’s powerful congressional
delegation, led by Senator Mark Hatfield, who chaired
the Senate Appropriations Committee in the late 1980s,
spared the region from any worries about cost overruns
when it built its second light-rail line. A good thing, too:
its cost ballooned from an original projection of $240
million to nearly $1 billion.

In 1998, Portlanders voted not to increase their
property taxes to pay for more light-rail lines, following
similar votes by Oregon in 1996 and Vancouver,
Washington in 1995. The city continues to build them
by finding ways of locally funding construction that
don’t require voter approval. The most recent lines have
not been as successful as the first two; early reports on
one that opened in 2004 indicate that it carries fewer
people than the bus route it replaced.


Quote:
• Transit ridership is declining in five out of eight
regions with older rail transit systems and is flat in
two others;

• In five regions with new rail transit—Atlanta,
Baltimore, Buffalo, Los Angeles, and St. Louis—
ridership has fallen below peak levels in the 1980s
before rail construction began or when in was in
the early stages;

• In at least five other new-rail regions—Dallas-Ft.
Worth, Denver, Portland, Salt Lake, San Jose—
transit ridership is growing, but more slowly
than when the region relied on bus-only transit
systems;

• Only in Boston has transit usage grown faster
than the growth of driving and only in Dallas-Ft.
Worth, New York, Salt Lake City, San Diego, San
Francisco, and Washington have transit kept pace
with the growth in driving. In Dallas-Ft. Worth and
Salt Lake City, it was the bus system, not rail transit,
that enabled transit to keep up with driving;

• In seven regions—Atlanta, Baltimore, Buffalo,
Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, San Francisco,
and St. Louis—transit trips declined from 1980s
peaks while passenger miles grew.

The major exception is Boston, which has significantly
increased commuter-rail service in the past two
decades and where strict land-use regulation has tried
to discourage suburbanization and decentralization
of jobs. In New York, transit ridership declined by 30
percent between 1984 and 1993, but has grown since
then, though not yet to 1984 levels. In San Francisco,
ridership has been flat but passenger miles have grown.

This suggests a reverse Robin-Hood effect, as transit agencies
sacrificed their core base of low-income inner-city
residents to capture business from relatively wealthy
suburbanites.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:14 pm 
King Ghidorah

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:53 pm
Posts: 547
I've avoided posting from rail advocacy sites because clearly they are biased. Just like Americandreamcoalition, who's "about us page" features:

Quote:
The American dream of freedom, mobility, and affordable homeownership has produced enormous benefits for Americans:

*

Homeownership -- More than 80 percent of Americans say their ideal home is a single-family house with a yard. Homes are one of the best investments a young family can make. The most important source of funds for new businesses in the U.S. is mortgages on the business owner's homes.
*

Mobility -- Automobiles give Americans access to better and higher paying jobs, lower-cost consumer goods, rapid-response emergency services, distant friends and relatives, and all sorts of recreation opportunities.
*

Freedom -- According to the Heritage Foundation's 2002 Index of Economic Freedom, nations that protect property rights and other forms of economic freedom have per capita incomes at least six times greater than nations will little or no economic freedom. Higher incomes mean higher environmental quality as well.


I'm afraid I'm not going to put a lot of stock into an automobile ownership/advocacy group's report.

p.s. Like I said before, all of the "negative" reports I've found are like this one...from groups opposed to all public transportation.


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:35 am 
Godzilla

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:37 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: The Gettin' Place
Retailers shunning downtown

Semi-related article

Killing tarnishes Gateway's safe image


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:30 pm 
Mothra
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Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:57 pm
Posts: 62
bnb614 wrote:


Not that the numbers are wrong (clearly, in order to have 'walkable' retail, there need to be people there to walk), but this article stinks of sour grapes a little bit - if Downtown sucks so hard, why was Casto trying to buy City Center last year?

To the point, though, the basic problem of public transportation in the US is that it's been set up to lose. Toolin' around town on a cold winter morning, with the car heater on, playing your own music, home-brewed coffee in hand - who wants to trade that to shiver at a bus stop? No-one. The only way to get people out of their cars en masse is to force them out, usually by allowing the experience of downtown driving to become so miserable that people will do anything to avoid it (i.e., Boston or Manhattan). Columbus doesn't have the density or downtown attractions for that to happen (yet) so transit money is going down a black hole, no matter what form it takes.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a supporter of public transportation, and have ridden the COTA bus plenty. My car is old, relatively fuel-efficient, and paid off, and it still costs me about $2500 a year. I could probably get a transit pass for $500 a year, so the other $2000 can go to transit, as far as I'm concerned, IF it's well-thought out and connects actual population or commercial centers. Rapid rail around the beltway and into downtown makes more sense, and might actually work for the people who have to sit on 71 and 315 every day, but the High Street trolley probably ain't it.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:10 pm 
Jet Jaguar

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:38 pm
Posts: 166
This shit reminds me a lot of the development they were trying to put into downtown Green Bay for a few years before I moved. Wasted millions upon millions of dollars and now we have a big gaping hole in downtown with even less people around than we did before. It's cool though because a bunch of people in the city gov't had ties to these development companies and they all made bank on it. The only people that suffered were the poor, and we're used to that already. Plus, now that there are ONLY poor people downtown we can feel free to rob, fight and kill each other without worrying about the lousy police interfering.


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:14 pm 
Mothra
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Posts: 103
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"Don Casto and Frank Kass hate Downtown Columbus" would have been a much better headline for that Dispatch article because obviously, not all retailers are shunning downtown. Just these two guys got up and complained.

While I'm not going to go on a total rant like the guys over on ColumbusING did (nice job BTW), I will say that I was disappointed to read the opinions of these speakers at this event last week. Their suburban developments contributed a lot to the demise of downtown retail, and their bleak visions of the future make it sound like they're going to continue to chase the money wherever's easiest.

While downtown isn't going to be easy, it's not going to be impossible either despite what Casto & Kass might want you to believe. What is needed isn't a traditional retail approach. The anchor-stores of yesteryear are either going under or consolidating, so there's fewer of them to fill in the large spaces. Downtown retail needs to consist of smaller stores, more local developments, entrepreneurialism, and a creative energy that you can find in the Short North, but you can't find at Polaris. Once that's established, some of the retail chains will then tag along for the ride.

Some people have also been quick to say that "retail follows rooftops", which to some extent is true. But the real problem with downtown Columbus retail is transportation. The streets have been reconfigured so that downtown is a place that's easy to drive into and park, work 8 hours, and drive home, all as quickly as possible. Pedestrian traffic has taken a back seat to the drivers and retail hurts because of it.

Look at the way the "town center" portion of Easton is configured. The streets are a single car wide and the sidewalks are just as big on each side. It's much less intimidating to patronize stores there when you don't have a roaring highway (ie: Third St, Fourth St, Spring St, Main St, Long St, Front St, and on and on) 5 lanes wide with cars zooming 45 MPH next to you.

If we want downtown retail to return we need to start by reconfiguring the environment to be something more pedestrian friendly. The Gay Street revamp is a good start. Let's get the rest of the streets done and the retail blanks can start to fill in by themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:35 pm 
Godzilla
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:10 pm
Posts: 6351
You know that Wexner originally wanted to put Easton downtown, along the river? There was some sort of politicing involved and Wexner said "screw you guys, I'm out". I'd say that's a pretty big fuck-up.

Quote:
Downtown retail needs to consist of smaller stores, more local developments, entrepreneurialism, and a creative energy


yes.

But I'd add that the $500 pants shops and the general "upscale" attitude exhibited in the SN destroys all of the above.

Quote:
the Gay Street revamp


Yeah that's cool, until you want to turn onto Gay from High St.


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:07 pm 
King Ghidorah

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:53 pm
Posts: 547
Jawbreaker wrote:
You know that Wexner originally wanted to put Easton downtown, along the river?



gonna have to throw the bullshit flag on that one.


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:36 am 
Godzilla
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PinheadFestival wrote:
Jawbreaker wrote:
You know that Wexner originally wanted to put Easton downtown, along the river?



gonna have to throw the bullshit flag on that one.



No, he's right.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 7:42 am 
Godzilla
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 1:10 pm
Posts: 6351
The story was related to me by someone who would be in a position to know-but I have no idea how accurate it is especially since it's before I even lived here. (I believe this is around the time they were planning City Center.)

I thought this was a pretty well-known story, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:25 am 
Godzilla

Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:37 pm
Posts: 2487
Location: The Gettin' Place
Walker wrote:
"Downtown retail needs to consist of smaller stores, more local developments, entrepreneurialism, and a creative energy that you can find in the Short North


I agree with you on Kass & Casto, they have no reason to push downtown development if it will hurt their suburban malls.

I also agree it would nice to have more smaller stores, and in an ideal world, smaller mom & pop stores retail stores would thrive in a community. Sadly that isn't the case anymore.

If you are a parent and you needed to buy diapers, where would you go if you didn't want to shop at a national chain (ie WalMart, Target, Lowes, Kroger, Giant Eagle, CVS, Walgreens, etc). Probably not a whole lot of options out there.

I think that for any retail downtown to survive, it needs to bring people in from the suburbs, and typical suburban housewives aren't going to driving into downtown to shop at 10 mom and pop stores when they can go to Walmart or a suburban mall and get it all done at one stop, for cheaper. (Especially with higher downtown parking fees)

Part of the other problem downtown has is that if you are going to the Arena District or the Short North for entertainment or sports, you can pretty much find any type of food/drink restaurant/bar right there. So any downtown development will need to be able to compete to draw people from those established areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:36 pm 
Godzilla
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Good read.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:13 pm 
Godzilla
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Is there a bike shop downtown or in SN yet?

I know there wasn't when i lived there. Couldn't even get a tube anywhere in the area.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:59 pm 
Donewaiting.com Staff
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underspecialization wrote:
Is there a bike shop downtown or in SN yet?


yes. B-1 is downtown, bike co-op in the SN.

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 Post subject: Re: Streetcars
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:22 pm 
Mothra
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Posts: 103
Location: The KLD
Jawbreaker wrote:
Yes. But I'd add that the $500 pants shops and the general "upscale" attitude exhibited in the SN destroys all of the above.

Whether or not the Short North is "too gentrified" is a whole other can of worms for a different day. I will say that there are more chain stores there than before, and you can now buy expensive clothes in addition to expensive art and expensive food, but there is still quite a bit of creative/entrepreneurialism located in the neighborhood, especially if we're comparing things to the suburban malls. Either way, that sort of retail growth and development is what I'd prefer to see happen downtown instead of a large-scale mall development that only has large spaces for national retailers.

Jawbreaker wrote:
Yeah that's cool, until you want to turn onto Gay from High St.

I don't get it. Is it hard to do? Or confusing because it's two-way now?

bnb614 wrote:
If you are a parent and you needed to buy diapers, where would you go if you didn't want to shop at a national chain (ie WalMart, Target, Lowes, Kroger, Giant Eagle, CVS, Walgreens, etc). Probably not a whole lot of options out there.

I think that for any retail downtown to survive, it needs to bring people in from the suburbs, and typical suburban housewives aren't going to driving into downtown to shop at 10 mom and pop stores...

I agree that one-stop shopping is going to be around for quite sometime in terms of everyday goods such as diapers and groceries and things of that nature. But there is already a fairly large core of urbanites in the neighborhoods surrounding downtown with no nearby options for the things they have to drive to the suburbs to find in malls or big box stores. I don't know if the existing retail shops in the Short North attract a ton of suburbanites to keep the bills paid or not, but I'm going to guess they tend to get a stronger percentage of customers from the surrounding neighborhoods.

While I don't think downtown is ready for all types of retail, there is a current demand for certain things that area is lacking. Steiner's comments about it taking another 40 years for retail to make a comeback downtown just left a bad taste in my mouth is all.

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