Donewaiting Friendship Farm • View topic

Wesley Flexner · **Joined:** Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm **Posts:** 1502

abstraction wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

abstraction wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

abstraction wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

see the thing is..
mike carney doesn't write graffiti.

i helped pioneered columbus graffiti scene.
i haven't done illegal graffiti in years..

i just know that the old generation does't understand the new generation so they say stupid shit cause they are too crotchy and arrogant to learn about the current cultures in their city.

I'm curious. Since age is so crucial to understanding the current culture, how old are you? What is the official cut-off age when people cease to be able to understand how great kids are and resort to saying "stupid shit?"

I congratulate you on successfully "proving" that the restaurant was tagged between owners. Now, how would you justify the other acts being mentioned? Are you going to encourage the "protection racket" scheme that mikecarney was describing?

i think like it or not there is a generation of kids that grew up on hip hop,skateboarding and graffiti.

I think that by now there are several generations of kids who grew up with those things. I also think that regardless of age, no good will come from encouraging kids to believe that crime must be associated with otherwise-positive activities. Not everyone is privileged (or white) enough to grow out of the negative labels that these works of art create.

but graffiti came from impoverished(mostly black) people that were neglected by their enviroment..

and people have developed themselves through it.

This is precisely my point. Which of the above categories do you fall under? Who do you think all those businesspeople are likely to blame for these things? Even if they "know" it wasn't an impoverished black person that sprayed up their shit, they'll still blame them for inspiring it. How well do you suppose that works out for impoverished black people when they need to get a job doing something other than spraying paint for rich people who want to seem "urban" and "edgy?"

that doesn't happen.....

Nationwide arena, Crew Stadium, and the Gateway district all developed fine despite being havens for graffiti at one point...

I think this is a much ado about nothing.

People invest money
People make money.

you hate the youth.

BastardSuperstar · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:39 pm

before i bother reading up from page 4 (where i left for work) let me just say:

11 FUCKING PAGES?!?!?! HOLY SHIT!

Cookie · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:40 pm

Wesley Flexner wrote:

No its not..
Its old school to a 16 year old..
Its called respecting the youth.

I know kids' Rakim's are Juelz, and Lil Wayne.
Why would'nt they be..

So if you want the youth to learn anything, you look at things from their perspective and their eyes..

We are the older ones, so we should be more mature in dealing with them

That's just dumb. Christ, 50 Cent is "old school" if you were born yesterday. Personally, I'll take my music recommendations from someone who demonstrates a thorough knowledge of what he's talking about.

Cookie · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:42 pm

BastardSuperstar wrote:

before i bother reading up from page 4 (where i left for work) let me just say:

11 FUCKING PAGES?!?!?! HOLY SHIT!

Eight pages of it is "YOU ARE TEH OLD!!!!!111" and oddly enough, half a page is about 401k plans.

Wesley Flexner · **Joined:** Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm **Posts:** 1502

unpossibles wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

I think my point is that i understand your point.
But i also don't think graffiti really is economically devasting to a business as you seem to think..

Stan and Kilroy have been looking for a good time over 100 years..
and it hasn't driven anyone out of business..

I know what you mean, but I disagree. While it may not be the graffiti alone, if someone has to spend $200+ out of pocket to clean up some shit, then that means that's $200+ they can't spend on something else. Sometimes if that something is rent or food, or if it keeps happening, most people will just give up.

Quote:

and much like skating a ledge, graffiti makes the city a playground for the youth...

exactly - because most youths don't have to buy their own food, clothes, a place to live, etc.

Most people grow out of that shit - and frankly if someone is that into the culture, then legitimize it so that kids aren't being criminals - just like those examples you gave. Show kids that a cool graffito art can be done with approval by the property owners or have them do what I did - start painting on things that I owned, like big sheets of plywood that I could take with me to places and sell them to people who dug 'em. crazy.

What if it costs 200 dollars to clean up...but the youth drops 3000 a week into your place...

Its your choice...
I am not saying you should want your shit vandalized..
But I thinks its stupid to lose 2800 from being out of touch...

And I can't see any youth listening to me if I told them right off the bat not to skate a curb..

But I can see them listening to me if I show them how to document it, and go through the right channels to create something for themselves..

Which in the end will empower them more than insulting them cause I don't get it.

Cookie · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:44 pm

Wesley Flexner wrote:

that doesn't happen.....

Nationwide arena, Crew Stadium, and the Gateway district all developed fine despite being havens for graffiti at one point...

I think this is a much ado about nothing.

People invest money
People make money.

you hate the youth.

You may not have noticed, but the Gateway district was levelled, so you might want to drop that argument. Come to think of it, so was the Arena district and the place where the stadium is now.

Wesley Flexner · **Joined:** Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm **Posts:** 1502

Cookie wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

No its not..
Its old school to a 16 year old..
Its called respecting the youth.

I know kids' Rakim's are Juelz, and Lil Wayne.
Why would'nt they be..

So if you want the youth to learn anything, you look at things from their perspective and their eyes..

We are the older ones, so we should be more mature in dealing with them

That's just dumb. Christ, 50 Cent is "old school" if you were born yesterday. Personally, I'll take my music recommendations from someone who demonstrates a thorough knowledge of what he's talking about.

hmm...so i am 16 and someone knows why Lil Wayne is good..
or 50 Cent "GRODT" is a classic, would'nt you be more apt to listen to him to get into music that isn't mass marketed?

unpossibles · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:45 pm

Wesley Flexner wrote:

Nationwide arena, Crew Stadium, and the Gateway district all developed fine despite being havens for graffiti at one point...

I think this is a much ado about nothing.

People invest money
People make money.

you hate the youth.

maybe you missed my point earlier. The graffiti may be exactly why those places got bought - because the price may have gone down if it keeps getting hit and no one wanted them. If you don't want your neighborhood bought out by whoever is the big investor and turned into the new Monoculture, then maybe give a damn about where you live. Sure - make public art - that fucking rocks! But maybe these kids could practice somewhere until they got real good.

frankly, I love Portland, OR's solution - they take old subway cars and put them in a park where people are encouraged to paint them. And the good art stays and the bad art gets covered. It's brilliant.

Wesley Flexner · **Joined:** Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm **Posts:** 1502

Cookie wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

that doesn't happen.....

Nationwide arena, Crew Stadium, and the Gateway district all developed fine despite being havens for graffiti at one point...

I think this is a much ado about nothing.

People invest money
People make money.

you hate the youth.

You may not have noticed, but the Gateway district was levelled, so you might want to drop that argument.

I meant it was tagged, and someone still put money into it.

abstraction · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:46 pm

Wesley Flexner wrote:

abstraction wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

abstraction wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

abstraction wrote:

Wesley Flexner wrote:

see the thing is..
mike carney doesn't write graffiti.

i helped pioneered columbus graffiti scene.
i haven't done illegal graffiti in years..

i just know that the old generation does't understand the new generation so they say stupid shit cause they are too crotchy and arrogant to learn about the current cultures in their city.

I'm curious. Since age is so crucial to understanding the current culture, how old are you? What is the official cut-off age when people cease to be able to understand how great kids are and resort to saying "stupid shit?"

I congratulate you on successfully "proving" that the restaurant was tagged between owners. Now, how would you justify the other acts being mentioned? Are you going to encourage the "protection racket" scheme that mikecarney was describing?

i think like it or not there is a generation of kids that grew up on hip hop,skateboarding and graffiti.

I think that by now there are several generations of kids who grew up with those things. I also think that regardless of age, no good will come from encouraging kids to believe that crime must be associated with otherwise-positive activities. Not everyone is privileged (or white) enough to grow out of the negative labels that these works of art create.

but graffiti came from impoverished(mostly black) people that were neglected by their enviroment..

and people have developed themselves through it.

This is precisely my point. Which of the above categories do you fall under? Who do you think all those businesspeople are likely to blame for these things? Even if they "know" it wasn't an impoverished black person that sprayed up their shit, they'll still blame them for inspiring it. How well do you suppose that works out for impoverished black people when they need to get a job doing something other than spraying paint for rich people who want to seem "urban" and "edgy?"

that doesn't happen.....

Nationwide arena, Crew Stadium, and the Gateway district all developed fine despite being havens for graffiti at one point...

I think this is a much ado about nothing.

People invest money
People make money.

you hate the youth.

You have yet to address anything I've written so far with anything that resembles a well-reasoned response. These are just more unrelated slogans. I'll just put this more succinctly by saying that I don't feel that this is a positive thing for the Black community.

Cookie · **Posted:** Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:47 pm

abstraction wrote:

You have yet to address anything I've written so far with anything that resembles a well-reasoned response. These are just more unrelated slogans. I'll just put this more succinctly by saying that I don't feel that this is a positive thing for the Black community.

Racist.

mikecarney · **Joined:** Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:08 pm **Posts:** 687

what is your small buisness doing for the black community?

Wesley Flexner · **Joined:** Sun Dec 19, 2004 6:08 pm **Posts:** 1502